2025 Starting Line-Up

[BontlowSzn]

Sooo.. about that 2025 starting line up..

We saw Bevo favour youth and speed round 1 last year.

We also know he will reward pre season form and training form/standards.

Its hard to see us going in with a side consisting of more than 2 of Libba, Sanders, Kennedy, Harmes.

Senior players would want to be hitting the ground running. We saw what happened to Daniel and Macrae early, and with the success of Bailey Dale's turn around in form you could see a surprise early sub candidate to try and replicate that.

There's only 15 'locks' for our round 1 side in my opinion. Which leaves 8 spots up for grabs. 8 feels like a large number for this category, I'm not sure whether that's a healthy thing or not. I'm slightly concerned we have the most players in the league who are too good for VFL footy, but can't produce consistently at AFL level.

[jeemak]

Essendon wouldn't budge when we asked for two 1st rounders, so you were almost there

We should have shopped him at the end of 2021, albeit after an injury interrupted season. Once a player puts the club through what he did at the end of 2020, and how we admittedly went against his wishes holding firm it was never going to be perfect. But, it would have been a better outcome than being held over a barrel at the end of 2022 when he was desperate to get as close to his girlfriend's family and be there for them like the solid rock that he is even though she lived in Adelaide........

[jeemak]

Sooo.. about that 2025 starting line up..

We saw Bevo favour youth and speed round 1 last year.

We also know he will reward pre season form and training form/standards.

Its hard to see us going in with a side consisting of more than 2 of Libba, Sanders, Kennedy, Harmes.

Senior players would want to be hitting the ground running. We saw what happened to Daniel and Macrae early, and with the success of Bailey Dale's turn around in form you could see a surprise early sub candidate to try and replicate that.

There's only 15 'locks' for our round 1 side in my opinion. Which leaves 8 spots up for grabs. 8 feels like a large number for this category, I'm not sure whether that's a healthy thing or not. I'm slightly concerned we have the most players in the league who are too good for VFL footy, but can't produce consistently at AFL level.

Well if you're not going to play along, and try to bring the thread back on course, that's up to you!

I think you're right in that we have some players who need to prove they can deliver at the level, but at the same time I think last year those in that category already on the list at their best showed they can contribute, and need more development to do it consistently. Kennedy, and to a lesser extent Harmes (albeit being a premiership player and pretty productive in 2021 if you care to look at his form) already have shown they can contribute at the level.

I'm still really excited about Sanders and think he was given really difficult roles last year for the sake of getting games into him somewhere close to where he'd eventually play in his second and third years - while he waited for more inside midfield opportunities (not to mention sending a signal to both Jacko and Daniel that they're not in our plans for better or worse). I've said it about five thousand times, though if he was at a Norf he'd have been able to roam across half back and collect possessions like some others of his draft calibre from the previous year (including Nick Daicos and Harry Sheezel). I didn't have him in my starting lineup from a few weeks ago, but if he plays well in the preseason sim and practice games he's going to play early on. He's too good not to.

Gallagher is clearly a favourite of the selection committee and he presents really well physically. He was excellent at times last year, just some of his kicks from hand to foot almost gave me enough time to get off the couch, travel to the ground and smother them myself. So his urgency needs attention. But, he can hit the scoreboard and I think with another preseason under his belt he is a massive threat to VDM providing he can tidy up his usage and deliver the same running capacity.

As for VDM, if he can just get a bit more of it and convert an additional opportunity each week - become close to a goal a game performer (he's currently just shy of kicking one every second game) - then he's possibly a lock. His disposal up-field isn't as bad as others, it's just the finishing that needs attention. He's in my starting lineup for now.

[Grantysghost]

Sooo.. about that 2025 starting line up..

We saw Bevo favour youth and speed round 1 last year.

We also know he will reward pre season form and training form/standards.

Its hard to see us going in with a side consisting of more than 2 of Libba, Sanders, Kennedy, Harmes.

Senior players would want to be hitting the ground running. We saw what happened to Daniel and Macrae early, and with the success of Bailey Dale's turn around in form you could see a surprise early sub candidate to try and replicate that.

There's only 15 'locks' for our round 1 side in my opinion. Which leaves 8 spots up for grabs. 8 feels like a large number for this category, I'm not sure whether that's a healthy thing or not. I'm slightly concerned we have the most players in the league who are too good for VFL footy, but can't produce consistently at AFL level.

The pre season games definitely shape how the rd 1 team looks.
McNeil as an example started in the Demons game on the back of some very good form.

Interesting comment re the amount of fringe players. I'll have a think about that, not sure it's a bad thing having some fluidity and competition for spots.

[GVGjr]

Sooo.. about that 2025 starting line up..

We saw Bevo favour youth and speed round 1 last year.

We also know he will reward pre season form and training form/standards.

Its hard to see us going in with a side consisting of more than 2 of Libba, Sanders, Kennedy, Harmes.

Senior players would want to be hitting the ground running. We saw what happened to Daniel and Macrae early, and with the success of Bailey Dale's turn around in form you could see a surprise early sub candidate to try and replicate that.

There's only 15 'locks' for our round 1 side in my opinion. Which leaves 8 spots up for grabs. 8 feels like a large number for this category, I'm not sure whether that's a healthy thing or not. I'm slightly concerned we have the most players in the league who are too good for VFL footy, but can't produce consistently at AFL level.

I really don't think Harmes is much of a midfield option for us unless our depth is being tested. M,Kennedy and Liberatore will play and Sanders might be the one who's asked to play more off the bench but he will get time.
My guess is we have a bit more than 15 locks and feel that if fit we have 17 locked in to the best 23. That's a healthy list management position because you want to have good form on the track, as you highlighted, rewarded.

[Jasper]

Can see it with Butters and, like you, would love to see Marra take the game by the scruff of the neck and dominate this year.

The attraction for me with Gulden is that he is something that we don't have whereas Butters would probably have to be a Libba replacement.

But all hypothetical. I think we are in good shape for this year.

We would all love to see Marra have a great season and to be honest if the had a similar season this year to last year but without a couple of those dreadful flat spots I'd rate him a lot higher.
I can live with those occasional mistakes of kicking the ball with the stitches pointing back at him because that should be an easy fix but when he isn't interested, and lets not kid ourselves it did happen, he becomes a liability.
Perhaps we just don't play him against Hawthorn and the problem is nearly solved

[mjp]

We would all love to see Marra have a great season and to be honest if the had a similar season this year to last year but without a couple of those dreadful flat spots I'd rate him a lot higher.

If you hunt around on here you'll see a post from me where I said I'd trade Jamarra for Butters. I was wrong.

You can't be trading 200cm key forwards who have just won the club leading goal kicker at 22 for 180cm mid-fielders. I know we all love Butters (and of course we all love Gulden) but when you compare the number of 180cm mids in the game who get it 30x to the number of 200cm key forwards who kick 50-goals per season there is simply no way we can get value. We actually have no idea what a fully formed Jamarra might look like - no idea. We're frustrated with stories of the off-field stuff - and of course his performance in the EF - but maybe he just had a bad day. It can happen. We're frustrated that at times he 'looks' disinterested...I think there's a bit of his laconic nature in that but not everyone can be ferocious all the time at 22. Who ever could have imagined Liam Jones doing the stuff he does now - going back with the flight, throwing himself at the contest without regard for his personal safety - at 22. As for trusting him to compete week in, week out...NO CHANCE.

Bad clubs trade good players. It's why the Gold Coast traded Tom Lynch and why past versions of the Bulldogs traded Templeton, Dempsey et al.

I get that the question was to put 4x players in order but that needs to take into account that we have a 200cm key forward who can run like the wind and catch it in a contest on our list. We shouldn't be thinking about moving him on. We should be solely focussed on helping the kid maximise his impact on the game.

Of course, if you REALLY know something and Jamarra is the second coming of Jake Stringer and is having a massive negative impact on the program as a whole, well...that I would understand...but maybe keep the stories to yourself.

[Jasper]

If you hunt around on here you'll see a post from me where I said I'd trade Jamarra for Butters. I was wrong.

You can't be trading 200cm key forwards who have just won the club leading goal kicker at 22 for 180cm mid-fielders. I know we all love Butters (and of course we all love Gulden) but when you compare the number of 180cm mids in the game who get it 30x to the number of 200cm key forwards who kick 50-goals per season there is simply no way we can get value. We actually have no idea what a fully formed Jamarra might look like - no idea. We're frustrated with stories of the off-field stuff - and of course his performance in the EF - but maybe he just had a bad day. It can happen. We're frustrated that at times he 'looks' disinterested...I think there's a bit of his laconic nature in that but not everyone can be ferocious all the time at 22. Who ever could have imagined Liam Jones doing the stuff he does now - going back with the flight, throwing himself at the contest without regard for his personal safety - at 22. As for trusting him to compete week in, week out...NO CHANCE.

Bad clubs trade good players. It's why the Gold Coast traded Tom Lynch and why past versions of the Bulldogs traded Templeton, Dempsey et al.

I get that the question was to put 4x players in order but that needs to take into account that we have a 200cm key forward who can run like the wind and catch it in a contest on our list. We shouldn't be thinking about moving him on. We should be solely focussed on helping the kid maximise his impact on the game.

Of course, if you REALLY know something and Jamarra is the second coming of Jake Stringer and is having a massive negative impact on the program as a whole, well...that I would understand...but maybe keep the stories to yourself.

I'm more than a bit lost with this response to what I contributed but to clarify I'm not saying we should even consider trading Marra..well unless a godfather type offer was made.
I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying about talented key forwards being a rare commodity and you will get no argument from me there but it appears that the last comment is directed towards what I contributed and if I'm reading it correctly I question if it's a fair response or conclusion.
Of course I've heard some rumors about Ugle-Hagan but have 100% faith that the club will deal with it if there is merit to it. If my comment about a couple of flat spots during the season is the trigger then I can't agree with that.
Please feel free to check my posting history and if it appears that I spread rumors then fair enough I'll cop that. For the record I was very happy with his season except for those flat spots.

[Grantysghost]

If you hunt around on here you'll see a post from me where I said I'd trade Jamarra for Butters. I was wrong.

You can't be trading 200cm key forwards who have just won the club leading goal kicker at 22 for 180cm mid-fielders. I know we all love Butters (and of course we all love Gulden) but when you compare the number of 180cm mids in the game who get it 30x to the number of 200cm key forwards who kick 50-goals per season there is simply no way we can get value. We actually have no idea what a fully formed Jamarra might look like - no idea. We're frustrated with stories of the off-field stuff - and of course his performance in the EF - but maybe he just had a bad day. It can happen. We're frustrated that at times he 'looks' disinterested...I think there's a bit of his laconic nature in that but not everyone can be ferocious all the time at 22. Who ever could have imagined Liam Jones doing the stuff he does now - going back with the flight, throwing himself at the contest without regard for his personal safety - at 22. As for trusting him to compete week in, week out...NO CHANCE.

Bad clubs trade good players. It's why the Gold Coast traded Tom Lynch and why past versions of the Bulldogs traded Templeton, Dempsey et al.

I get that the question was to put 4x players in order but that needs to take into account that we have a 200cm key forward who can run like the wind and catch it in a contest on our list. We shouldn't be thinking about moving him on. We should be solely focussed on helping the kid maximise his impact on the game.

Of course, if you REALLY know something and Jamarra is the second coming of Jake Stringer and is having a massive negative impact on the program as a whole, well...that I would understand...but maybe keep the stories to yourself.

Marra is untradeable, anyone considering it should go and have a hard look in the mirror!

[Critter]

Gallagher is clearly a favourite of the selection committee and he presents really well physically. He was excellent at times last year, just some of his kicks from hand to foot almost gave me enough time to get off the couch, travel to the ground and smother them myself. So his urgency needs attention. But, he can hit the scoreboard and I think with another preseason under his belt he is a massive threat to VDM providing he can tidy up his usage and deliver the same running capacity.

Spot on. You've nailed the issue with Gallagher. He seems at times not to have picked up the pace of AFL. As you say, clean up this and his disposal, and he can lock in a permanent place in the starting line-up.

[mjp]

I'm more than a bit lost with this response to what I contributed but to clarify I'm not saying we should even consider trading Marra..well unless a godfather type offer was made.

Yeah - sorry...I wasn't trying to imply you were saying that we should trade Marra - but that 'felt' like the tenor of the thread (Butters and Gulden are 'better' than Marra and we would be better with them than him) so I used to quote to kind of anchor mine. I hope that makes sense.

[Jasper]

Yeah - sorry...I wasn't trying to imply you were saying that we should trade Marra - but that 'felt' like the tenor of the thread (Butters and Gulden are 'better' than Marra and we would be better with them than him) so I used to quote to kind of anchor mine. I hope that makes sense.

Thank you. All good.

[jazzadogs]

Marra is untradeable, anyone considering it should go and have a hard look in the mirror!

For me, its not that we should initiate a trade - but if he has a desire to move clubs, then we need to be extracting maximum value in return for him because he has so many elite traits. His last two seasons are seriously just better conversion away from being near AA conversations, imo (EF not included, that was trash).

Are we really going to trade Marra for Butters or Gulden? No, I wouldn't have thought so - but if it happens, the return needs to be immense.

[Go_Dogs]

For clarity, when I responded saying Butters it wasn’t with a premise of trade Marra. It was with a premise of add Butters too.

when Marra kicks 60 goals this year Aza will come and slam anyone who didn’t say Marra.

[mjp]

Spot on. You've nailed the issue with Gallagher. He seems at times not to have picked up the pace of AFL. As you say, clean up this and his disposal, and he can lock in a permanent place in the starting line-up.

Pretty sure for a while there Gallagher was the lowest rated player (please - can we not debate the accuracy or otherwise of the CD rankings and just acknowledge they are ONE measure of a players impact on games) to have ever played 10+ games in a season...or something. If I wasn't so lazy I'd look it up.

He certainly got a LOT of games last year that he did not necessarily earn through on-field performance.

Anyway - he seems like a nice person and I think we all hope for improved on-field output in 2025.