Our forward line - chicken or egg?

[Maddog37]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

Our forward line is many things. Too tall, too small, too old, too slow etc etc

The one thing that really hurts us is the too slow part. Rebound from our forward line kills us every week.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

The system is breaking down because its such a hard thing to establish. Mick Malthouse's transformation of Collingwood is relevant. Their system took years to get going but eventually got them a premiership. Even ordinary players like Leigh Brown, a NQR at two other clubs, were transformed by the art or the Malthouse system.
When the moulding of our personnel to our system is developed it will work but until then the forwards may be the KPI of our lack of this development. But there will come a time when the development manifests and the team delivers the ball to the forwards effectively.
Alec Hyslop, lecturer in Philosophy of Aesthetics at La Trobe University, lectured on 'What is a work of art'? One thing he perhaps surprisingly claimed was that Australian Rules Football is a work of art. It is a work of art because it is a magnificent construct that is enacted like an opera or a play. It is ironically not what most fans experience when we are at the game. However it is the construct that make it a work of art and it is not easy to develop a construct as a work of art but BMac and the boys must, if our forwards are to get the ball delivered effectively. It will be a couple of years in the making, meanwhile it may appear ineffective, leaving the forwards lacking quality supply, for a period that will require true faith from our supporters.

Mick Malthouse took 11 years to land a premiership at Collingwood with all the resources that they bring to the table. We did extremely well to play in three prelim finals 2009-2011, but fell short because of a lack of depth particularly up forward. Our attack on statistics currently is rated the worst in the AFL. We look forward to the emergence of Stringer Roberts and Macrae but as you suggested it is going to take a lot of faith and belief. We will rise again but the additions of Gold Coast and GWS pushes our reliance on developing young talent tougher and longer to obtain. Free agency will also put clubs like the WB at a disadvantage.

[GVGjr]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

For mine, we need a couple of players who know how and when to lead. We want a FF so we can leave Ayce in the FP. Then we need another FP who is small, Quick and can lead.
Then we should NEVER allow the opposition to have an extra defender. Every time they attempt to set up a two on one on our forwards we should send a player with him. Then if they try to go two on one, we have a loose man we can pass to sitting in the front 50.

Next we need to stop trying to squeeze 4 to 6 of our mids all into the rucking ring in the centre all at once.
For heaven's sake, no wonder we have difficulty getting the ball free, it becomes sport constipation.

[Bornadog]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

For mine, we need a couple of players who know how and when to lead. We want a FF so we can leave Ayce in the FP. Then we need another FP who is small, Quick and can lead.
Then we should NEVER allow the opposition to have an extra defender. Every time they attempt to set up a two on one on our forwards we should send a player with him. Then if they try to go two on one, we have a loose man we can pass to sitting in the front 50.

Next we need to stop trying to squeeze 4 to 6 of our mids all into the rucking ring in the centre all at once.
For heaven's sake, no wonder we have difficulty getting the ball free, it becomes sport constipation.

A couple of times last week, Hawthorn had eight in the forward line to match up with Freo who kept sending players down there to try and quell Buddy.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

TEAM - i50# - SCORES - CONVERSION

Geel - 62 - 30 - [48%]
Port - 60 - 33 - [55%]
Ess - 59 - 31 - [53%]
Haw - 59 - 30 - [51%]
Syd - 56 - 27 - [48%]
Rich - 56 - 31 - [55%]
StK - 55 - 26 - [47%]
Coll - 54 - 29 - [53%]
Frem - 53 - 25 - [47%]

Adel - 53 - 25 - [47%]
Carl - 53 - 28 - [53%]
North - 52 - 27 - [52%]
Bris - 52 - 24 - [46%]
GCS - 52 - 23 - [44%]
WCE - 47 - 30 - [64%]
WB - 45 - 20 - [44%]
GWS - 44 - 22 - [50%]
Melb - 42 - 19 - [45%]

So yes we have the worst score to inside 50 ratio in the AFL, but we are also pretty close to being the worst inside 50 team. If the inside 50 differential is 15 in the opposition's favour, and they convert that to scores at the same rate as we do (around 50%, say), then they receive 7-8 more scores than us and perhaps with a decent goal to behind ratio kick around 30 points more. If you flip it around, if we're beaten by 10% in converting inside 50s to scores, with the same inside 50 count (55, say), then we concede 5 to 6 more scores and around 20-25 more points. Add these together and we're down by 50+ points.

But then the average inside 50 count by players displayed here suggests that half forwards play as much of a role as good outside mids in actually getting the ball into the forward line. Scroll down to #13 in that list and lo and behold, Shaun Higgins. Next best for us is #67, Ryan Griffen.

[boydogs]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

But then the average inside 50 count by players displayed here suggests that half forwards play as much of a role as good outside mids in actually getting the ball into the forward line. Scroll down to #13 in that list and lo and behold, Shaun Higgins. Next best for us is #67, Ryan Griffen.

Gia, Dickson, Murphy & Higgins should be up there in that stat, yet they are all out of the side. Macrae & Tutt aren't marking targets, we need players to lead up at the ball to stop the half forward line trampoline effect and deliver inside 50. This increases the number of entries, and with quality disposal inside 50 the conversion percentage as well.

Looking for Stringer and Veszpremi to do that tonight.

[ReLoad]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

Murphy would have helped a lot tonight vs the Cats. But in saying that he would have also got in the way of Jones who was clunking everything.

What we need to do is have Jones and Stringybean, with 2 crumbers, Dollhouse and a +1 the question is, who is that +1.

Forward line was good tonight, it always looks good with a very attacking Cooney hitting you laces out.

[boydogs]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

Gia, Dickson, Murphy & Higgins should be up there in that stat, yet they are all out of the side. Macrae & Tutt aren't marking targets, we need players to lead up at the ball to stop the half forward line trampoline effect and deliver inside 50. This increases the number of entries, and with quality disposal inside 50 the conversion percentage as well.

Looking for Stringer and Veszpremi to do that tonight.

Vesz as a lead up player didn't work, Stringer was good and Jones was excellent.

What we need to do is have Jones and Stringybean, with 2 crumbers, Dollhouse and a +1 the question is, who is that +1.

Picken should be down there, but an outside mid such as Cooney or Macrae can fill that role as well. Even Smith worked well as a crumber in the second half

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

Vesz as a lead up player didn't work, Stringer was good and Jones was excellent.



Picken should be down there, but an outside mid such as Cooney or Macrae can fill that role as well. Even Smith worked well as a crumber in the second half

Didn't he! Could have easily had another to his name.

[boydogs]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

Didn't he! Could have easily had another to his name.

He may need to spend a bit more time there, I still think we have too many inside mids in the team, add Griff and a full game from Macrae and it looks better but that means two of the current crew will be displaced

[jeemak]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

Vesz as a lead up player didn't work, Stringer was good and Jones was excellent.

Picken should be down there, but an outside mid such as Cooney or Macrae can fill that role as well. Even Smith worked well as a crumber in the second half

Vesz needs another week in the side to show his worth. If he gets dropped on the back of one ordinary performance I'll be severely pissed off. It's really hard to come up a grade and play well immediately.

Picken showed his worth as a defender today. Aside from tagging, that's his go. We need to develop specialist forwards in our quest to build a premiership side, Picken won't be part of our forward structure.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our forward line - chicken or egg?

He may need to spend a bit more time there, I still think we have too many inside mids in the team, add Griff and a full game from Macrae and it looks better but that means two of the current crew will be displaced

Twice he had a bigger player swinging off him as he stood up in the tackle. Personifies Bulldog.