Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

[Grantysghost]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

It's pre-meditated cheating.

You have to know BEFORE getting out on the field you are going to cheat in order to have sandpaper in your pocket. Things that happen in a moment of madness? I can excuse them. Stuff you have thought through in the cold light of day and STILL decided to go ahead with? That's something different altogether.

They didn't cheat by accident. They didn't cheat because of 'opportunity'. It wasn't ONE person involved...They decided to cheat...and cheated. They knew what they were doing was 100% outside the spirit of the game...

I am different to a lot of people in that I have a LOT of sympathy for the players involved in the Essendon supplements saga - and even some sympathy for Hird since reading 'The Boys Club'. But one thing always stuck with me from that whole sordid affair which was the letter written by the club doctor to the board which effectively said:

"Whether what we are doing is legal or illegal is immaterial. Sending players off-site to get injections is simply NOT a good look for the club or the game".

I feel the same way about this whole thing with Warner and Smith (does anyone care about Bancroft anymore?). These players INTENTIONALLY cheated. Being prepared to 'trust' them now to represent Australia? It just doesn't sit well with me. Yep - they should be permitted to play and can be IPL superstars if they like...but they shouldnt get to play for Australia.

Nods violently.

Only thing I don't agree with is the leaders at Essendon. I have some sympathy for the rank and file player eg Crameri.
But for a leader like Watson I don't on the same level. As the representative of the players it should've been questioned.
Hird I'm on the fence , because I think he trusted the wrong people. But he was responsible none the less, that goes with the role. He and Goodwin seem to be on the edge pushing for the extra percent types. Not sure about the melanotan injections for brown skin though spare me the vanity crikey!

The media attention was insane, stalking Diana type madness.

[Bornadog]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

It's pre-meditated cheating.

You have to know BEFORE getting out on the field you are going to cheat in order to have sandpaper in your pocket. Things that happen in a moment of madness? I can excuse them. Stuff you have thought through in the cold light of day and STILL decided to go ahead with? That's something different altogether.

They didn't cheat by accident. They didn't cheat because of 'opportunity'. It wasn't ONE person involved...They decided to cheat...and cheated. They knew what they were doing was 100% outside the spirit of the game...

I am different to a lot of people in that I have a LOT of sympathy for the players involved in the Essendon supplements saga - and even some sympathy for Hird since reading 'The Boys Club'. But one thing always stuck with me from that whole sordid affair which was the letter written by the club doctor to the board which effectively said:

"Whether what we are doing is legal or illegal is immaterial. Sending players off-site to get injections is simply NOT a good look for the club or the game".

I feel the same way about this whole thing with Warner and Smith (does anyone care about Bancroft anymore?). These players INTENTIONALLY cheated. Being prepared to 'trust' them now to represent Australia? It just doesn't sit well with me. Yep - they should be permitted to play and can be IPL superstars if they like...but they shouldn't get to play for Australia.

Totally agree it is cheating, but what should the punishment be? ICA rules were something like 6 matches. Our blokes were banned for 12 months plus 100 hours of voluntary service in community cricket. Are you saying they should have been banned for life?



PS: There are some rumours floating that in the lunch break some cricket officials spoke about a swinging ball and what can be done about it and there was encouragement to do something. Not confirmed, but as I said earlier, there is more to it.

[GVGjr]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

It's pre-meditated cheating.

You have to know BEFORE getting out on the field you are going to cheat in order to have sandpaper in your pocket. Things that happen in a moment of madness? I can excuse them. Stuff you have thought through in the cold light of day and STILL decided to go ahead with? That's something different altogether.
They didn't cheat by accident. They didn't cheat because of 'opportunity'. It wasn't ONE person involved...They decided to cheat...and cheated. They knew what they were doing was 100% outside the spirit of the game...

In essence you are 100% correct. It was pre-meditated but for the sake of clarity I don't think it was something that was planned well in advance. It appears that the whole 'Australian room' was struggling with why the ball wasn't swinging which was making the bowlers an inept unit.
Warner came up with the plan and it appears that no one tried to talk him out of it and Smith being the captain just didn't want to deal with it. Time will tell if the whole room or parts of it knew much about it but at the very least I'd have to question why every bowler wouldn't have been aware that the ball was sandpapered.

I think they also knew that SA were cheating at times and it's why they buckled but that's just my view.

I am different to a lot of people in that I have a LOT of sympathy for the players involved in the Essendon supplements saga - and even some sympathy for Hird since reading 'The Boys Club'. But one thing always stuck with me from that whole sordid affair which was the letter written by the club doctor to the board which effectively said:

"Whether what we are doing is legal or illegal is immaterial. Sending players off-site to get injections is simply NOT a good look for the club or the game".

I'm still nonplussed by the whole Essendon's drugs saga. An untested program designed to gain a physical advantage through supplements bypassing a highly respected Doctor who continually raised his concerns is a worse level of cheating and one that could have had a major impact on the health of a playing group. This might be just one persons opinion but what Hird did was far worse than what the Australian cricket team did.
By the way, before Hird took over the coaching duties he often talked about fast tracking the physical development of the playing group. This was certainly a planned and measured program and when anyone got in the way the were isolated from it.

For the cricketers, I think we got the bans about right but there should have been a few more.

[EasternWest]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

In essence you are 100% correct. It was pre-meditated but for the sake of clarity I don't think it was something that was planned well in advance. It appears that the whole 'Australian room' was struggling with why the ball wasn't swinging which was making the bowlers an inept unit.
Warner came up with the plan and it appears that no one tried to talk him out of it and Smith being the captain just didn't want to deal with it. Time will tell if the whole room or parts of it knew much about it but at the very least I'd have to question why every bowler wouldn't have been aware that the ball was sandpapered.
.

Here's how that conversation goes:

"Hey Smithy I want to sandpaper the ball" - Warner

"No" - Smith

I don't have a dog in the fight or much of an opinion either way, but saying the captain just didn't want to deal with it doesn't wash with me.

[jeemak]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

Here's how that conversation goes:

"Hey Smithy I want to sandpaper the ball" - Warner

"No" - Smith

I don't have a dog in the fight or much of an opinion either way, but saying the captain just didn't want to deal with it doesn't wash with me.

I'd have thought not wanting to deal with it would be the number one reason why he shouldn't be able to fulfil a leadership position again.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

I'd have thought not wanting to deal with it would be the number one reason why he shouldn't be able to fulfil a leadership position again.

It’s tacit approval in my book and exposes a massive culture issue existent at the time.

[GVGjr]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

I was listening to SEN yesterday and there was just a bit of speculation that Warner might announce his retirement from test cricket.
Nothing confirmed but they seemed to think it would be announced before the start of play.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

Could not believe it at the time. I was overseas and was ashamed to be Australian. I still can't believe it happened. There is cheating and there is CHEATING. That was blatant CHEATING at a level I thought I would never see at that level.

Now Dave Warner wants empathy for what he has gone through. Give me a spell and don't get me started about his wife Candice either.

[Scraggers]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

I was listening to SEN yesterday and there was just a bit of speculation that Warner might announce his retirement from test cricket.
Nothing confirmed but they seemed to think it would be announced before the start of play.

No announcement (unfortunately) other than Fox Cricket announcing that he will be in commentary. Are they wanting people to switch off??

[jeemak]

Re: Does anyone else simply hate the sight of Dave Warner and Steve Smith???

No announcement (unfortunately) other than Fox Cricket announcing that he will be in commentary. Are they wanting people to switch off??

I've been wanting to understand what the apple eaters among us really think about things.....