The best all-rounder

[mighty_west]

Re: The best all-rounder

I could have batted in the top 4 of some of the South African teams of the last 15 years. If you owned a bat you automatically qualified as a member of the touring party.

It's not who you play for, but who you play against!, his average speaks for itself.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The best all-rounder

By the numbers, compare averages:

Kapil Dev : Batting - 31.05, Bowling - 29.64
Imran Khan : Bat - 37.69, Ball - 22.81
Richard Hadlee : Bat - 27.16, Ball - 22.29
Jacques Kallis : Bat - 54.57, Ball - 31.12
Garfield Sobers : Bat : 57.78, Ball - 34.03 [can't really split Sobers & Kallis]
Ian Botham : Bat - 33.54, Ball - 28.40
Chris Cairns : Bat - 33.53, Ball - 29.40
Wasim Akram : Bat - 22.64, Ball - 23.62

Adam Gilchrist : Bat - 47.60, W/K - 379 catches / 37 stumpings

The only way to compare Gilly with the other all rounders is to stack his wicket keeping average up against other wicket keepers, if that side of his games stands up against the best, then he has to be right up top given his batting average is so high.

- Kapil Dev's averages with both bat & ball are average.
- Imrans batting is above average but bowling is outstanding at 22.81.
- Hadless batting is average whilst his bowling is also outstanding.
- Kallis is outstanding with the bat, but average with the ball, same goes with Sobers.
- Cairns & Botham are both average, but Akram has a brilliant bowling average.

And your conclusion is?

[mighty_west]

Re: The best all-rounder

And your conclusion is?

My conclusions are at the bottom of the post, comparing the stats.

When i say average for bat & ball, i'd say anything below 25 with the ball is great, above 40 with the bat, just as great.

So in many cases, there are all rounders who could claim to better than others, but as highlighted, Hadlee, Imran & Akram are bowling all rounders whilst Kalis & Sobers batting all rounders, the rest are pretty even with both, so it's always really hard to compare.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: The best all-rounder

By the numbers, compare averages:

Kapil Dev : Batting - 31.05, Bowling - 29.64
Imran Khan : Bat - 37.69, Ball - 22.81
Richard Hadlee : Bat - 27.16, Ball - 22.29
Jacques Kallis : Bat - 54.57, Ball - 31.12
Garfield Sobers : Bat : 57.78, Ball - 34.03 [can't really split Sobers & Kallis]
Ian Botham : Bat - 33.54, Ball - 28.40
Chris Cairns : Bat - 33.53, Ball - 29.40
Wasim Akram : Bat - 22.64, Ball - 23.62

Adam Gilchrist : Bat - 47.60, W/K - 379 catches / 37 stumpings

The only way to compare Gilly with the other all rounders is to stack his wicket keeping average up against other wicket keepers, if that side of his games stands up against the best, then he has to be right up top given his batting average is so high.

- Kapil Dev's averages with both bat & ball are average.
- Imrans batting is above average but bowling is outstanding at 22.81.
- Hadless batting is average whilst his bowling is also outstanding.
- Kallis is outstanding with the bat, but average with the ball, same goes with Sobers.
- Cairns & Botham are both average, but Akram has a brilliant bowling average.

Average's don't provide anywhere near the appropriate level of context to tell the full story. Dev's average with the ball, was impacted by the fact he did not have a regular top class pace partner. He often had to shoulder the whole pace attack, and did not have a long term fast bowling partner to take the load off him. Guys like Ghavri, Madan Lal, Chetan Sharma, Binny, and later on Prabhakar were in and out of the side regularly. Srinath was probably the best of the supporting act, but was right at the tail end of Dev's career.

I would say Hadlees was the only other one on the list who had to carry the load as much as Dev did, but Hadlee was a superior bowler to Dev, and overall performed on wickets much more responsive than Dev did.

[dog town]

Re: The best all-rounder

God I am in love with your posting. Totally agree with the Kallis call. He made my time's greatest XI in the thread I put up and I gotta say he made it with ease. I seriously can't think of a more underrated sportsperson (excluding women playing male dominated sports and disabled people, who are underrated via not many people caring). Obviously it has to do with his no fuss way of going about things. A solid, conservative batsman who bowls medium paced line and length. There's that old chestnut about statistics not being very honest but averaging 54.57 with the bat and taking 252 wickets at an average of 31.12 over 128 tests tells me you're one of the greatest all-rounders of all time. Another reason he is underrated is that Australian cricket fans seem to ignore performances that don't involve Australia but since 2000 Kallis has average over 43. Not too bad for an all-rounder when you look at it away from his wonderful usual average.

He is just such a consistent performer and the kind of guy you build a batting line up around. I think his methodical and ultra consistent style makes him boring to some whch probably see's him marked down a touch by some. Each to there own I suppose but for me I would take the consistent approach everytime.

Totally agree regarding our rating of players outside Australia. Sometimes its for a valid reason but there are some damn good players getting around that dont get rated highly enough.

[dog town]

Re: The best all-rounder

The main reason I rated Kallis behind the others is because I don't think he is capable of breaking a game open in the same way. The bowling all rounders could all take charge of a game against the best opposition and be regular match winners. Whilst Kallis is a good bowler as his record testifies it is not in the elite class as the others are.

On the batting front Kallis is the best batsmen statistically and certainly consistently but again I don't think he hurts the opposition enough. To me, whilst he scores well, he just doesn't take command. He tends to accummulate and bore teams into submission. I think if he was a bit more dynamic I'd rate him much higher.

Thought that might be the case. Everyone likes different things in a batsmen. I certainly enjoyed watching all of those guys but I just cant ignore the sheer weight of scoring from Kallis. The other guys are also more dynamic bowlers than Kallis.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The best all-rounder

Andrew Symonds.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The best all-rounder

Isn't fit to lick Hadlee's jockstrap.

[ledge]

Re: The best all-rounder

Symonds probably competes with Botham in the other all rounder skill, (punch ups and misdemeaners)
Now there was a good story Ian Chappell and Ian Botham at Nth Melb..........Leave that for the funny stories in sport post.

[westdog54]

Re: The best all-rounder

The best I've seen would have to be Kallis. In an era where top class batsman are rarely used as a first or second change bowler he just keeps going along playing consistent, classy cricket.

He doesn't just 'hold down' a middle order batting spot, he's a fantastic number 4 and a darn good bowler.