Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure what to make of the state of our cricket at the moment.

Is this lapse in form solely due to cycling through Gilchrist, Warne, Hayden and McGrath over the last few seasons? Is this just the recession we had to have?
Is it just the amount of injuries we have suffered in the last few months with the likes of Lee, Symonds and Clark?
Are the selectors just not getting it right enough?
Has the rich spoils of the IPL distracted our players?
Is the state of cricket here in Australia not as strong as it should be?

There is probably a combination of all of the components but I was having a browse of state shield lists and I really don't think we are in a terrific state at the moment.

When you look at the keepers and spin bowling stocks we are at best workman like.
Our pace bowling has some promise but a lot of the better performers aren't that young.
Our batting looks OK but it certainly hasn't transitioned into the Test or limited over games with too many positive results.

When compared to the South Africans I think we are also getting beat in the captaincy and coaching components.

Look at the South African side, 3 strong fast quicks supported by some up and comers. They bowl to a plan and work very hard.
For the test series they lost the well performed Ashwell Prince and unearthed a star in Duminy.
For the one-dayers they lost their captain in Smith and replaced him with the very innovative, resourceful and young Botha and never missed a beat. Even in last nights game, they rested Kallis and Steyn and had the hard nosed Boucher out and yet they were still way too good for us.

There are some positives, we have done well with Siddle and Johnson who look to be the future of our pace bowling brigade. We do however, need to find another two so the likes of Hilfenhaus and Bollinger need to grab whatever opportunities may come their way.
Simon Katich has been superb and has gone from strength to strength.
We have had a good look at a number of spinners and now need to settle on one or two of them.
We have had some exciting but untried youngsters performing well at the shield level in particular Phil Hughes and even Shaun Marsh looks capable of playing in the Test side one day.

What do we need to do?
I'd include Hughes at the top of the order.
Playing Symonds is not sustainable or in our best interests.
Unless Lee or Clark really knock down the door, I'd try and stick with the 4 quicks mentioned above.
I'd request the state coaches to really try and cull their teams of the marginal older players that might still be performing well but aren't capable of higher duties. That might mean guys like Damien Wight make way from James Pattinson and Denton for Faulkner etc.
Try and fast track the development of the likes of Henriques, McDermott, Pattinson, Faulkner and Hazlewood so we have another wave of quicks coming through.
I'd look to include someone tough like Trevor Hohns as the chairman of the selectors.

But most importantly I'd start by replacing the coach because we haven't seemed to have had the right strategies for a while now. In comparison, Mickey Arthur has developed counter attacks all summer and has got his team to execute them well.

It's frustrating to watch us being beaten and it will be interesting to see if we can get this side back on track.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

IMO, SA seem to be about 2 years ahead of us as far as re-building. They have got some quality young guys coming through and getting good opportunities, which is helping their development. We've been hit by a few retirements too, like they were a few years ago, but we have gone for more safer options. They have blooded more young guys, and it seems to be paying off for them.


I think we have a much deeper problem, in that a lot of good junior cricket players we have seem to get lost in translation going from junior cricket, to state level and then having to wait 10 years for an opportunity at international level. All these talented guys who burst on the scene, never seem to get anywhere.

Guys like Ryan Harris only gets 1 game throughout the series, but he is the sort of player we should be looking at throwing more game time too. Especially with all the injuries we currently have, let's throw a few younger guys to the wolves (ok, NZ) and see what they can do.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

I'm not sure what to make of the state of our cricket at the moment.

Is this lapse in form solely due to cycling through Gilchrist, Warne, Hayden and McGrath over the last few seasons? Is this just the recession we had to have?
Is it just the amount of injuries we have suffered in the last few months with the likes of Lee, Symonds and Clark?
Are the selectors just not getting it right enough?
Has the rich spoils of the IPL distracted our players?
Is the state of cricket here in Australia not as strong as it should be?

The South Africans are better than us right now, but the selectors are making what would have been a difficult task impossible.

I'd request the state coaches to really try and cull their teams of the marginal older players that might still be performing well but aren't capable of higher duties. That might mean guys like Damien Wight make way from James Pattinson and Denton for Faulkner etc.
Try and fast track the development of the likes of Henriques, McDermott, Pattinson, Faulkner and Hazlewood so we have another wave of quicks coming through.
I'd look to include someone tough like Trevor Hohns as the chairman of the selectors.

The problem I have with this is that I think the Bushrangers are far more important than the Australian side and I'd rather win the Shield than the Ashes.

[lemmon]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

IMO, SA seem to be about 2 years ahead of us as far as re-building. They have got some quality young guys coming through and getting good opportunities, which is helping their development. We've been hit by a few retirements too, like they were a few years ago, but we have gone for more safer options. They have blooded more young guys, and it seems to be paying off for them.


I think we have a much deeper problem, in that a lot of good junior cricket players we have seem to get lost in translation going from junior cricket, to state level and then having to wait 10 years for an opportunity at international level. All these talented guys who burst on the scene, never seem to get anywhere.

Guys like Ryan Harris only gets 1 game throughout the series, but he is the sort of player we should be looking at throwing more game time too. Especially with all the injuries we currently have, let's throw a few younger guys to the wolves (ok, NZ) and see what they can do.

I agree in context, except why are we playing the likes of Ryan Harris and Doug Bollinger? Both guys are around 30 and have little to no chance of having a long successful test career. SA have rebuilt perfectly, they gave games to the likes of Morne Morkel and Dale Steyn when they were young and are now reaping the rewards. Instead of trying to find a 10 year player we are looking for a quick fix with guys who would only play for 4-5 years max. Last night was a perfect example, the series was over so SA took the oppertunity to blood guys like Tsotsobe and Parnell who are 24 and 19 respectively while we rushed back Bracken.

[hujsh]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

I'd request the state coaches to really try and cull their teams of the marginal older players that might still be performing well but aren't capable of higher duties. That might mean guys like Damien Wight make way from James Pattinson and Denton for Faulkner etc.
Try and fast track the development of the likes of Henriques, McDermott, Pattinson, Faulkner and Hazlewood so we have another wave of quicks coming through.

You can't go too crazy with it though or the competition will weaken. Otherwise i love it.

[hujsh]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

I agree in context, except why are we playing the likes of Ryan Harris and Doug Bollinger? Both guys are around 30 and have little to no chance of having a long successful test career. SA have rebuilt perfectly, they gave games to the likes of Morne Morkel and Dale Steyn when they were young and are now reaping the rewards. Instead of trying to find a 10 year player we are looking for a quick fix with guys who would only play for 4-5 years max. Last night was a perfect example, the series was over so SA took the oppertunity to blood guys like Tsotsobe and Parnell who are 24 and 19 respectively while we rushed back Bracken.

Bollinger 27 Harris 30.

Is 27 too old? Maybe 5 good years.

[GVGjr]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

The problem I have with this is that I think the Bushrangers are far more important than the Australian side and I'd rather win the Shield than the Ashes.

I certainly don't see it that way and honestly neither should the states. Shield cricket feeds the national sides so when we are strong we can carry a couple of guys per state but at the moment even though the likes of DWright are performing, he should be eased out of the side.

[GVGjr]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

You can't go too crazy with it though or the competition will weaken. Otherwise i love it.

How can each state culling a marginal older player weaken the competition? At worst it might weaken it for one season but at best it could actually strengthen the standard.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

Time to learn the lessons from Hawthorn.

Yes we have some players the fans love and who are good blokes, but are they a part of the future and rebuilding. If not, we need to send them packing and recruitinto the national team some kids and expose them to the top level to see what they are made of.

We need a coach and selectors that are ruthless like Clarkson. You can only top-up players for so long (MHussey 30, DHussey 30, Jacques 29, Rogers 29, Clark 29) until the strategy becomes outdated and then there is a glut of older players not performing (as is the case now).

If the selectors are serious about returning us to number 1, then we can't pick good blokes or older players who may have at best 2 years in them while good kids are left at state level. Introducing Warner has been good, but now it's time for Hughes. I'd also consider a one-dayed for blooding a few kids against NZ including Henriques and Ferguson.

[lemmon]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

How can each state culling a marginal older player weaken the competition? At worst it might weaken it for one season but at best it could actually strengthen the standard.

Shield teams have to find the balance between being successful and making test players. At the moment I think a lot of teams have it wrong, for example look at the vics shield side today instead of debuting young Michael Hill a 20 year old who captained the Aus U19 side and was as highly rated as Phil Hughes they play Crossthwaite as a specialist batsmen. Yes he has been in good form but surely this was a perfect oppertunity to blood the kid against the bottom of the table team. Another one who couldve got the spot was young Pattison a 19 year old allrounder with a massive future.

[lemmon]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

Bollinger 27 Harris 30.

Is 27 too old? Maybe 5 good years.

For some reason i had it in my head he was 30+, 27 is probably right on the limit. I would prefer the spot go to some one younger but their arent a lot of young guys coming through and performing well enough for a test spot.

[hujsh]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

How can each state culling a marginal older player weaken the competition? At worst it might weaken it for one season but at best it could actually strengthen the standard.

Guys like Denton and Wright test guys like Hughes and make them better. There's still room for 27-30 year olds to begin test cricket careers. Just not for the glut of them that are around now. You're probably right the standard would drop for about a season at most but it just may need to be watched is all

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

Time to learn the lessons from Hawthorn.

Yes we have some players the fans love and who are good blokes, but are they a part of the future and rebuilding. If not, we need to send them packing and recruitinto the national team some kids and expose them to the top level to see what they are made of.

We need a coach and selectors that are ruthless like Clarkson. You can only top-up players for so long (MHussey 30, DHussey 30, Jacques 29, Rogers 29, Clark 29) until the strategy becomes outdated and then there is a glut of older players not performing (as is the case now).

If the selectors are serious about returning us to number 1, then we can't pick good blokes or older players who may have at best 2 years in them while good kids are left at state level. Introducing Warner has been good, but now it's time for Hughes. I'd also consider a one-dayed for blooding a few kids against NZ including Henriques and Ferguson.

The test side doesn't have restricted playing lists or a salary cap. There is no reason to blood a young player in the test side before he is ready, let him make runs in the Shield and when he can hold his place on merit, bring him in then.

What is wrong with a player having a two-year test career if he's making runs or taking wickets while he's there? Michael Hussey and Stuart Clark were both 30 when they debuted. If Clark never plays another test he was a decent player while it lasted. Now bring in the next best we have to replace him, regardless of whether it's Dirk Nannes at 30 or Peter Siddle at 23.

Good is always better than young.

[lemmon]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

The test side doesn't have restricted playing lists or a salary cap. There is no reason to blood a young player in the test side before he is ready, let him make runs in the Shield and when he can hold his place on merit, bring him in then.

What is wrong with a player having a two-year test career if he's making runs or taking wickets while he's there? Michael Hussey and Stuart Clark were both 30 when they debuted. If Clark never plays another test he was a decent player while it lasted. Now bring in the next best we have to replace him, regardless of whether it's Dirk Nannes at 30 or Peter Siddle at 23.

Good is always better than young.

We would never had the sustained success we have had if we didnt blood Warne and Mcgrath in their early 20s.

[mighty_west]

Re: Australian Cricket - Where to from here?

I certainly don't see it that way and honestly neither should the states. Shield cricket feeds the national sides so when we are strong we can carry a couple of guys per state but at the moment even though the likes of DWright are performing, he should be eased out of the side.

Whats going to happen then? wouldn't that just make the domestic comp a weaker comp? because they are playing players not ready, just for development?

Whilst i'm not as passionate about the Bushrangers as someone like Sockeye Salmon, i agree what he's saying about this, players like Hughes, need to play in a strong competition to take him to that next step, plus he and every other youngster who is ready for the domestic comp can learn from the older players, feed off their experience etc.

Players need to get to Denton & Wrights level, they need to work for those positions, to get them in the best shape when it's their time for a call up, if they are going to be good enough, and in my honest opinion, to just use the domestic comp as a development comp for the National sqaud, is just going to drag down Australian cricket, we would fall off the pace.