Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

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  • LostDoggy
    WOOF Member
    • Jan 2007
    • 8307

    Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

    I’ve been stewing about this for a couple of days now, and I think this is the right time to write about it.

    I am severely disappointed at the comments of English match referee Chris Broad and Australian umpires Simon Taufel and Steve Davis about the ‘failure’ of the Pakistani security forces (all as far as I can see purely based on conjecture and circumstantial observation without possession of the full facts) without even a passing word of gratitude to those who lost their lives in their service. I believe that these comments reflect a sub-conscious Western bias in their worldview, where a non-white life is worth less than a white one – if it had been six (count them, SIX) English or Australian police officers killed in the line of duty they would be hailed as heroes and their names published on the front page of every newspaper in town. Instead, because they are ‘only’ Pakistani police, they are not even worth the life of a single English match official, who instead of thanking those who died, have the gall to complain when, as far as has been reported, they contributed nothing at all to their own salvation – it was a Pakistani driver who was killed driving the match officials around, and a Pakistani police officer who risked his life to jump in to their van and drive them away to the stadium (what did they think all the ‘gunfire outside when a Pakistani police office finally came to drive them off’ was? Fireworks? There was some real action going on outside, yet they dismiss that there was any effort to save them at all, even having the temerity to say ‘we don’t know why we’re still alive’. Perhaps your security cordon had something to do with it?)

    And the way they have spoken of their killed driver (talking callously about how he was 'thrown him off the bus' so that the policeman could get into the seat) shows clearly that they see Pakistanis as a somehow 'lower' form of humanity (Mr. Davis said as much - did he even care to find out his name, or the names of the killed police officers?). Had it been an English or Australian driver I doubt they would be half as callous.

    Contrast Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis’s comments to the comments of the Sri Lanka cricket team (apart from Murali), who have had nothing but praise (and thanks) for the security officers and their driver, DESPITE being more severely injured than the match officials in the van behind, because they know that they have the sacrifice of six Pakistani policemen to thank for their lives. Maybe Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis could learn a thing or two about gratitude.

    There is no doubt that the Pakistani security could have been much better, and that many things went wrong that HAVE to be looked at, but surely a word of gratitude to those who died in the service of protecting you could be forthcoming BEFORE engaging in all this precious posturing.

    -

    In my development work I see this type of subconscious superiority complex all the time, and it sickens me. It disappoints the heck out of me to see it in some of our top cricket officials.
  • hujsh
    Hall of Fame
    • Nov 2007
    • 11738

    #2
    Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

    You seem to favour a 'white people are racist' view sometimes as well and appear, from where i sit, to be a bit touchy about what is 'Australian'.

    Are you sure they didn't mention it at all? I'd say the point about the poor security would have sold more papers and the point may also have been that with better security no lives have been lost at all.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Comment

    • The Coon Dog
      Bulldog Team of the Century
      • Jan 2007
      • 7575

      #3
      Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

      Lantern,

      I know you are going to hate the way I'm responding, because I really enjoy your posts, particularly your concern & compassion for your fellow human beings on the planet.

      Lately though I have noticed that you seem to head down a path where, for want of a better term you label people racists.

      Having once had that accusation thrown at me unfairly on another forum I am particularly sensitive & abhor racism in any way shape or form.

      You are much more knowledgeable on this topic that myself & I dare say most of us on this board, but to have a crack at the 'Western' match officials in the manner you have I think is grossly unfair. Through no fault of their own they were caught up in a terrifying incident & quite rightly are feeling that it should have been prevented.

      It is extremely sad for those who lost their lives, particularly for the families who have lost loved ones, who in most, if not all cases would have been the only bread winner within the household.

      I hope you don't feel I'm out of line, but I had noticed a tendency creeping into your posts & I'm sorry if this offends you as that's not what it is meant to do.
      [COLOR="Red"][B][U][COLOR="Blue"]85, 92, 97, 98, 08, 09, 10... Break the curse![/COLOR][/U][/B][/COLOR]

      Comment

      • Sedat
        Hall of Fame
        • Sep 2007
        • 11053

        #4
        Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

        Not sure if anyone remembers this old D-Generation sketch back in the mid-80's. It was set in a news desk where Rob Sitch was reading the news. First story was about 5 people being killed in a car accident, and there was a scoreboard in the top right hand corner of the screen that moved from 0 to 5..."that should be coming through on the 'deathalizer' now" says Rob in his best professional news-reader voice. Second story was "2,000 die in flash flooding in Bangladesh" and the scoreboard moves up from 5 to 7...."those of course are our racially adjusted figures" says Rob without a hint of emotion. Final news story was "Aboriginal dies in police custody in Queensland jail cell"...scoreboard doesn't move at all and Rob gives a sheepish look to the scoreboard then to the audience.

        Was a piss-funny sketch.

        In fairness to Taufel, Davis and Broad, I'm not sure how I'd react after being placed in such a volatile situation just from doing my job. Some people react differently to the same situation that befalls them. I can't be too critical of their angry reaction - it must have been a harrowing ordeal to have to go through. Lantern is right in relation to the local media's portrayal of the fallen victims - similar victims would be cannonised here. But I think this is more to do with death being ever present in a dangerous country, and therefore taken for granted moreso, that any reflection on the relative worth of the lives lost in this particular situation.
        "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

        Comment

        • LostDoggy
          WOOF Member
          • Jan 2007
          • 8307

          #5
          Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

          Originally posted by hujsh
          You seem to favour a 'white people are racist' view sometimes as well and appear, from where i sit, to be a bit touchy about what is 'Australian'.

          Are you sure they didn't mention it at all? I'd say the point about the poor security would have sold more papers and the point may also have been that with better security no lives have been lost at all.
          Australians are no more racist than any other people -- Indians and Pakistanis are some of the more racist nations on earth according to many UN studies and other international monitors. The religious rifts in these countries that have contributed to the instability in the region, as well probably to this attack as well (potentially a Tamil Tigers attack), is deserving of condemnation, and believe me when I say that that is a FAR bigger issue than I would care to discuss on a sporting forum. Much of the advocacy work we do in South Asia has been in dealing directly with the fall-out of religious discrimination as well as with inequities arising from the caste system, so I am very aware of the failings of other cultures.

          Many non-whites are incredibly racist, so its certainly not an 'anti-white' attack.

          However, in a post-colonial world, the single biggest cultural challenge for the 'rich' countries in the Western world is to get us (I say US because I am one of you, hujsh) to learn to see other countries and cultures from an objective standpoint and to shed 500 years of colonialist cultural baggage. This, from all my time in development work, has been the single biggest hindrance, I believe, to finding good, sustainable solutions to much of the world's current ills. If we aren't able to SEE everyone as equal, we will subconsciously perpetuate the same inequities that are present.

          My disappointment is in the lack of gratitude shown and the inconsistency in the way we treat people of different races - as I said, if it were English, American, or Australian policemen killed in the line of duty I believe the news would have been presented very differently.

          I listened to the interview with both Broad and Taufel on ABC, and they were certainly willing to share their views about anything, but I didn't hear a hint of gratitude.

          I would just have liked for some acknowledgement of the policemen's sacrifice. Six policemen of any race killed in the line of duty in a terrorist attack is surely a tragedy in anyone's language. And if, as you say, 'controversial' comments are published ahead of these men's names in the pursuit of newspaper sales, then you have made my case for me.

          Comment

          • LostDoggy
            WOOF Member
            • Jan 2007
            • 8307

            #6
            Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

            Originally posted by The Coon Dog
            Lantern,

            I know you are going to hate the way I'm responding, because I really enjoy your posts, particularly your concern & compassion for your fellow human beings on the planet.

            Lately though I have noticed that you seem to head down a path where, for want of a better term you label people racists.

            Having once had that accusation thrown at me unfairly on another forum I am particularly sensitive & abhor racism in any way shape or form.

            You are much more knowledgeable on this topic that myself & I dare say most of us on this board, but to have a crack at the 'Western' match officials in the manner you have I think is grossly unfair. Through no fault of their own they were caught up in a terrifying incident & quite rightly are feeling that it should have been prevented.

            It is extremely sad for those who lost their lives, particularly for the families who have lost loved ones, who in most, if not all cases would have been the only bread winner within the household.

            I hope you don't feel I'm out of line, but I had noticed a tendency creeping into your posts & I'm sorry if this offends you as that's not what it is meant to do.
            TCD, I thoroughly appreciate your comments, and I apologise if I have offended you in any way. I thought hard about whether or not to post my thoughts -- after all this is a sporting forum, and most of these cultural issues may belong elsewhere.

            I wrote my original thoughts down in MS-Word last night, and let it sit for a night before re-reading it today and making quite a few edits, and I was still hesitant to post, as I wasn't sure if this was necessarily the right forum -- I'm speaking next week at an Indigenous Affairs conference as part of a launch of a partnership with BHP, and that may have been a more 'receptive' audience for some of my points, so to speak -- my work with indigenous Australia and around the world presents this issue starkly, if I may be so blunt.

            However, as I have said, this is a sporting forum and I come here to enjoy talking about the Dogs and other sports and indulge my passion from my younger coaching days. Yet, culture and race seem inescapable in sport, especially when the passion over different codes of football, for example, are so closely linked to nationalist (and even state-based) fervour that so easily spill into quasi-offensive remarks. If I seem overly sensitive I probably stand guilty as accused -- I love all codes of football, and it disappoints me when overly nationalist or quasi-racist remarks creep into the discussion (ie. some soccer players are not 'Australian' because they have 'non-Australian' surnames), etc.

            Cricket is the other sport where race and culture are so entangled in it -- the perils of 'subcontinent' touring for English/Australian teams (I've been to India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh countless times so I know a little bit about the difficulties!), the ICC being 'in thrall' to the power and money of India, which was the first 'post-colonial' country etc. and it is nigh impossible for me to intelligently engage with the sport without considering this very rich tapestry of tension and conflict.

            While realising my comments were quite strong, I certainly did not intend to offend anyone here, and if I have done so, I apologise. I will be mindful of this in the future, and will refrain from casting a negative tone on WOOF -- thank you TCD and hujsh for your feedback. An objective, external view of one's actions is always welcome.

            Comment

            • The Underdog
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Aug 2007
              • 6747

              #7
              Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

              Originally posted by Lantern
              TCD, I thoroughly appreciate your comments, and I apologise if I have offended you in any way. I thought hard about whether or not to post my thoughts -- after all this is a sporting forum, and most of these cultural issues may belong elsewhere.

              I wrote my original thoughts down in MS-Word last night, and let it sit for a night before re-reading it today and making quite a few edits, and I was still hesitant to post, as I wasn't sure if this was necessarily the right forum -- I'm speaking next week at an Indigenous Affairs conference as part of a launch of a partnership with BHP, and that may have been a more 'receptive' audience for some of my points, so to speak -- my work with indigenous Australia and around the world presents this issue starkly, if I may be so blunt.

              However, as I have said, this is a sporting forum and I come here to enjoy talking about the Dogs and other sports and indulge my passion from my younger coaching days. Yet, culture and race seem inescapable in sport, especially when the passion over different codes of football, for example, are so closely linked to nationalist (and even state-based) fervour that so easily spill into quasi-offensive remarks. If I seem overly sensitive I probably stand guilty as accused -- I love all codes of football, and it disappoints me when overly nationalist or quasi-racist remarks creep into the discussion (ie. some soccer players are not 'Australian' because they have 'non-Australian' surnames), etc.

              Cricket is the other sport where race and culture are so entangled in it -- the perils of 'subcontinent' touring for English/Australian teams (I've been to India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh countless times so I know a little bit about the difficulties!), the ICC being 'in thrall' to the power and money of India, which was the first 'post-colonial' country etc. and it is nigh impossible for me to intelligently engage with the sport without considering this very rich tapestry of tension and conflict.

              While realising my comments were quite strong, I certainly did not intend to offend anyone here, and if I have done so, I apologise. I will be mindful of this in the future, and will refrain from casting a negative tone on WOOF -- thank you TCD and hujsh for your feedback. An objective, external view of one's actions is always welcome.
              I don't think your comments were in any way offensive Lantern. I noticed a similiar thing while reading the press over the last couple of days. Admittedly the security presence was lacking and I'd be hugely surprised if some security forces weren't "in on it" but as you said 6 police died. I'm guessing none of Broad, Davis or Taufel had their heads up looking out the bus window to see what was going on outside so therefore probably can't give particularly accurate description of what went on and haven't been even slightly thankful to the bus driver who was killed or the policeman who saved their lives.
              There's no denying Australia still has a huge amount of latent racism particularly in the press, and any questioning, observation or conversation which helps to rid ourselves of the problem is welcome. You're also obviously speaking from a knowledgable base and are more than qualified to comment.
              Park that car
              Drop that phone
              Sleep on the floor
              Dream about me

              Comment

              • hujsh
                Hall of Fame
                • Nov 2007
                • 11738

                #8
                Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

                Originally posted by Lantern
                Australians are no more racist than any other people -- Indians and Pakistanis are some of the more racist nations on earth according to many UN studies and other international monitors. The religious rifts in these countries that have contributed to the instability in the region, as well probably to this attack as well (potentially a Tamil Tigers attack), is deserving of condemnation, and believe me when I say that that is a FAR bigger issue than I would care to discuss on a sporting forum. Much of the advocacy work we do in South Asia has been in dealing directly with the fall-out of religious discrimination as well as with inequities arising from the caste system, so I am very aware of the failings of other cultures.

                Many non-whites are incredibly racist, so its certainly not an 'anti-white' attack.

                However, in a post-colonial world, the single biggest cultural challenge for the 'rich' countries in the Western world is to get us (I say US because I am one of you, hujsh) to learn to see other countries and cultures from an objective standpoint and to shed 500 years of colonialist cultural baggage. This, from all my time in development work, has been the single biggest hindrance, I believe, to finding good, sustainable solutions to much of the world's current ills. If we aren't able to SEE everyone as equal, we will subconsciously perpetuate the same inequities that are present.

                My disappointment is in the lack of gratitude shown and the inconsistency in the way we treat people of different races - as I said, if it were English, American, or Australian policemen killed in the line of duty I believe the news would have been presented very differently.

                I listened to the interview with both Broad and Taufel on ABC, and they were certainly willing to share their views about anything, but I didn't hear a hint of gratitude.

                I would just have liked for some acknowledgement of the policemen's sacrifice. Six policemen of any race killed in the line of duty in a terrorist attack is surely a tragedy in anyone's language. And if, as you say, 'controversial' comments are published ahead of these men's names in the pursuit of newspaper sales, then you have made my case for me.
                Do you think we would focus on the policemen if they were American? I'm not so sure the Australian media would more than in this case, apart from the spillover from the American media that we get.

                I can't say if your right or wrong or that i necessarily agree or disagree with your points as you've clearly had more experience in the area than I have. It was interesting to see your further explanation since, as TCD said, you'd mentioned racism a few times before so it was good to get some clarification on your views and how they came about.
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment

                • lemmon
                  Bulldog Team of the Century
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 6433

                  #9
                  Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

                  I can see both points of view here, definitley agree that the officials should have show a bit more compassion and have come across as quite callous but they were promised high level security and this failed to materialise.

                  Comment

                  • ledge
                    Hall of Fame
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 14033

                    #10
                    Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

                    High level security does not mean this wont happen, remember Ronald Reagan in the 80s, he was surrounded by security guards and still got shot, if ever there was the highest amount of security its with an American presidant. If they want to get you they will.
                    The worst thing about terrorists is they can look like a normal kid with a backpack on and that can happen in any country.
                    My personal opinion is if you have to have that kind of security dont go in the first place, its only a game why tempt fate and death for just a game.
                    Bring back the biff

                    Comment

                    • Scraggers
                      Premiership Moderator
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 3540

                      #11
                      Re: Mr. Broad, Taufel and Davis: Get a Clue

                      Originally posted by Lantern
                      I believe that these comments reflect a sub-conscious Western bias in their worldview, where a non-white life is worth less than a white one
                      I too like reading your posts Lantern ... I believe you have an insightful world view and your different perspective always bodes for good reading ... BUT ... To say someone is not doing their job properly does not a racist make ...

                      Simon Taufel also went on to say the only reason they were sitting in this interview was due to the brave Pakastani Policeman who jumped into the drivers seat to drive them out of the danger zone ...

                      I honestly believe their comments were egomaniacal, not as you say reflecting a sub-conscious western bias; but considering what they had just been through, their preoccupation with their own lives is understandable

                      Comment

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