Push Bikes Vs Cars

[LostDoggy]

Wasn't sure where to put this thread. I guess this will do.

Today on SEN I heard that Kingston council are banning parking between certain times on beach Rd so its safer for cyclists. I believe a good decision.

Afterwards what developed was the good old Cars vs Bike argument.
As a car driver and a bike rider. I couldn't believe the stances taken the pro car people. Not sure if its just the bogan listeners on SEN or popular opinion.

Some of the points made were -

Bikes should be registered like cars - well if they used as much of road and made as much damage to the road, the environment and to 3rd parties then it would be fine.

Bike riders are always breaking the road rules - car drivers break as many rules if not more. Seem more like jealously to me. They are governed by the same rules and if caught get the same penalties

Should not be allowed to ride more than 1 abreast - cars drive more than 1 abreast and it takes up lot more space. I have no problem with people riding in a pack if they only take 1lane.

Whats peoples opinion on this? Hearing these 'king of the road' opinions makes its scarier to ride.

I know the Hell Riders incident got a lot of bad press but it was one incident where the bike riders were in the wrong comapred to numerous where riders are knocked off by cars.

[mighty_west]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

Living on the Peninsula, i always drive down the Napean Hwy, come Saturday/Sunday mornings, and without fail, packs of bike riders.

I have no problems with them what so ever, there is a small stretch of road called Olivers Hill i drive down [passing through Frankston], two lanes, so the left hand lane is constantly taken up by packs of riders during these times, i always drive on the right hand side for the stretch or road, no dramas what so ever.

I guess its a bit like road rage between two car drivers, and rages between car & bike, people just need to feel that they own the road, and they need any excuse for a bit of road biffo, same when i'm driving down Beach Road, i don't have any problems, if more people just relaxed a bit, be courteous either way, we wouldn't have any drama's, unfortunatly though, there are ALOT of dickheads out there, and if they see a bike do the wrong thing, or a car for that matter, they feel a need to take things into their own hands.

You just worry about your own driving, and get on with it, there are bikes, busses, trucks, whatever, deal with it, thats the way i feel.

[hujsh]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

I'm on my L's for another month and my only problem with them is that I worry I'll hit one accidentally.

[Bornadog]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

No probs with Bike riders, but I think bikes need to be registered and have a number plate so if there is an incident, they can be identified, just like a car. Bike riders do break the law, constantly like going through red lights. I thought there was a law about two a breast but doesn't seem like it with the packs.

[EasternWest]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

I know the Hell Riders incident got a lot of bad press but it was one incident where the bike riders were in the wrong comapred to numerous where riders are knocked off by cars.

Good post Ernie, sure to generate the usual debate.

As a bike rider and car driver there are definitely valid arguments amongst all the babble on both sides of the fence.

I feel it's important to mention that in the case of the Hell Ride incident, whilst undoubtedly they were clearly in the wrong, there was a lot of hyperbole in the press about how "the riders just kept riding". This was in fact blatantly wrong. A lot of the riders did stop to render assistance, to both their riding colleague and the unfortunate victim, but most continued because there were plenty of people stopped on scene.

As an emergency services worker, believe me, the last thing you want is fifty people standing around at an incident "helping out". Three or four people can be very handy to have, but more than that and they become another safety factor that emergency responders need to consider.

For mine, when I ride, I try to view my riding from the POV of cars. Hence, I never go through red lights etc, and I always make sure to acknowledge when a driver has treated me courteously on the road. If a car is stcuck behind me on a tight single lane road, I get as far left as I can and wave them through when it's safe.

It's pretty simple really, just be considerate, both ways. It's been said a million times, but you'd be surprised just how effective a smile and a wave can be. Another point to consider is that in all the times I've ridden (and I ride a lot), I've only ever seen/been involved in a handful of dicey situations, so perhaps the amount of frenzy over this issue is maybe disproportionate. Maybe most car drivers are rational, normal, humans who are capable of decency and courtesy when having to deal with riders on the road.

Either driver or rider, be aware, pay attention and show courtesy. Easy as that.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

No probs with Bike riders, but I think bikes need to be registered and have a number plate so if there is an incident, they can be identified, just like a car. Bike riders do break the law, constantly like going through red lights. I thought there was a law about two a breast but doesn't seem like it with the packs.

How many incidents are there where a member of the public needs to id a bike and rider? It would be a first world wide I suspect if we need to register bikes.

If bike riders go through red lights they should be punished but I see way more car drivers breaking the speed limit without punishment.

There is no two abreast law in Victoria, though common courtesy tell you that where the road is skinny maybe you shouldn't. Riding in a group makes you more visible so it can be a safety issue.

[mjp]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

If bikes vs cars was a sport ES I suspect I would bet on the cars (and take the over). The problem would be getting decent odds.

Once upon a time I had to pay to repair a motorists wind-shield after being hit by a car (whilst on my bike). Apparently the dark orange light I rode through at the bottom of the hill (Kings Park Rd for those who know) also applied to me as a cyclist...Ridiculous.

[GVGjr]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

There is no two abreast law in Victoria, though common courtesy tell you that where the road is skinny maybe you shouldn't. Riding in a group makes you more visible so it can be a safety issue.

I get that but both the cyclist and motorist must respect each other more and they clearly don't. I've seen some very silly act's by cyclists and some dangerous ones by motorists.

[The Underdog]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

I get that but both the cyclist and motorist must respect each other more and they clearly don't. I've seen some very silly act's by cyclists and some dangerous ones by motorists.

I agree, it cuts both ways. I've seen drivers act like bastards to bikes but there's a heap of cyclists out there who've responded by getting aggressive and creating dangerous situations.
I live in the Dandenongs and each weekend there's cyclists all over the place thinking they're in the Tour de France. Couple them with the touristing Sunday drivers staring out their side windows while they go around hairpin turns, I'm amazed that more people aren't killed.
A bit of civility, respect and sense from both sides is required.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

It might cut both ways but the cut to a cyclist is way deeper. Don't see many motorists die from being hit by a cyclist do you?

[GVGjr]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

It might cut both ways but the cut to a cyclist is way deeper. Don't see many motorists die from being hit by a cyclist do you?

And that's exactly the reason why they need to get their act together first up. If they continually ride 2 and 3 abreast when they know that the traffic is building up behind them then sooner or later someone will do something stupid and endanger their lives.
It's not right but they need to clean up their act.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

And that's exactly the reason why they need to get their act together first up. If they continually ride 2 and 3 abreast when they know that the traffic is building up behind them then sooner or later someone will do something stupid and endanger their lives.
It's not right but they need to clean up their act.

Again there is no law for riding 2 abreast. You are less likely to be hit as a group as its easier to be seen.
Not sure about this holding up traffic part, a few seconds max?
The bike riders aren't angels but the problem is more red neck driver attitudes.

[GVGjr]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

Again there is no law for riding 2 abreast. You are less likely to be hit as a group as its easier to be seen.
Not sure about this holding up traffic part, a few seconds max?
The bike riders aren't angels but the problem is more red neck driver attitudes.

Not disputing that but as you pointed out before, one of these groups is vastly more likely to get hurt than the other. With that in mind the cyclists need to clean up their act first. A red necked driver is more likely to act stupidly if he sees the bikes running lights or riding 3 abreast.
On the road bike riders don't concern me but they aren't under the same rules as motorists and at times it shows.

Governments need to make the roads more bike friendly

[Before I Die]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

How many incidents are there where a member of the public needs to id a bike and rider? It would be a first world wide I suspect if we need to register bikes.

If bike riders go through red lights they should be punished but I see way more car drivers breaking the speed limit without punishment.

There is no two abreast law in Victoria, though common courtesy tell you that where the road is skinny maybe you shouldn't. Riding in a group makes you more visible so it can be a safety issue.

ES, I wasn't too sure whether you were saying that two abreast was legal or illegal. Or for that matter, whether 3 or more abreast was legal or illegal. So I did a quick google search. The following is from a 2005 Bicycle Victoria publication.

The basic rules
Bicycles are vehicles, and are therefore required to comply with the same traffic laws as motorists.
The road rules apply to roads and road-related areas such as shared paths.
Cyclists must:
· Obey all traffic signals and signs.
· Ride as near as practicable to the far left side of the road. Bicycle Victoria suggests riding a
metre out from kerbside obstructions such as parked cars or the kerb itself.
· Have at least one effective brake and a warning device such as a bell on their bikes.
· Ride the bike facing forward with at least one hand on the handlebars.
· Wear an approved bicycle helmet securely fitted.
· Have lights and reflectors for riding at night or in low-visibility conditions. Rear lights must be
red and front lights white. Both lights must be visible for at least 200m and can be flashing or
steady. Bikes must also have a rear reflector visible at 50m.
· Keep to the left and give way to pedestrians on shared pathways.
· Ride in bicycle lanes where they are marked on the roads.
· Use a hand signal when turning right.
· Not ride more than two abreast on a road unless overtaking other riders. When riding two
abreast riders must be no more than 1.5m apart.
· Not ride within 2m of the rear of a moving vehicle for more than 200m or hold onto a moving
vehicle.
· Not ride across a road on a children’s crossing, marked foot crossing or pedestrian crossing.

I ride about 100km a week, mostly on the trails with short stints on the roads where I ride one or two abreast, depending on road width and conditions. The biggest problem I find is impatient (and/or non-aware) drivers pulling out from side streets in front of me. Especially in situations where I am travelling at lower speeds. They just seem to back themselves to get out in time, clearly giving no consideration to the damage that will be inflicted upon the cyclist if they don't make it. A minor scrape to their car could be the death of a rider.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Push Bikes Vs Cars

Not disputing that but as you pointed out before, one of these groups is vastly more likely to get hurt than the other.

Why is that? They are easier to see

With that in mind the cyclists need to clean up their act first. A red necked driver is more likely to act stupidly if he sees the bikes running lights or riding 3 abreast.

So its a jealously thing as suspected. Please cyclist don't don't run a red light like cos drivers can't do it and you might upset them.

On the road bike riders don't concern me but they aren't under the same rules as motorists and at times it shows.

Which road rules are they?