How do we rebuild the Test side?

[GVGjr]

OK, we have had our backsides kicked comprehensively by a team that was brilliantly prepared, disciplined to every detail and one that was obviously very hungry to amass big scores.

What is the recipe that we need to look at to get this side back on track?

Some of my thoughts are:
- Looking for tall quick bowlers with sound techniques.
- Look for batsman with a strong technique and a real appetite to bat for long periods.
- Get the states to take into consideration what is best for the National team. Remove any state administrator who gets in the way of that.
- Be prepared to cop our lumps for another season as team selections will be conducted with a view on the longer term positions.
- Conduct a comprehensive review on our current coaching and selector positions regardless of contracts currently in place.

There has been a tendency to blame the selectors, coaches and players for our current performance but I think the issues we need to deal with are actually a lot bigger than that.

Please add your thoughts here.

[Bornadog]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Some thoughts:

*Need a brand new selection panel which is accountable for their actions, ie when they pick players they must show evidence why they picked them.

*Play less cricket than current. We seem to be playing cricket 365 days of the year. There needs to be breaks so that the test side also plays Shield cricket.

*The biggest issue is grass roots cricket. Listening on the radio the other day, in the past, ex test players went back and played Shield and even club cricket. This does not happen any more and therefore there is an effect on up coming players.

*Out of form test players need to be dropped and new blood brought in. We don't have any succession planning and thats why we are now in the shit.

We have completely stuffed up the team and now we are stuck with players that shouldn't be there. Do we just get rid of them and start again or slowly bring in new players. Its a hard one.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Have a comprehensive start to the Sheffield Shield season where Test players/Aspiring test players are required to play, rather than being overseas in meaningless one dayers or what not.

Have bowlers bowling to a plan.

[Greystache]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Everything needs a complete review, and it needs to be done by a group without vested interests in the current set up. Everything from junior representative competitions through to selection and preparation of the test team.

For a start, when they're selecting the Australian under 17's and under 19's they're selected to play in 50 over tournaments, so therefore the teams aren't actually made up of the best 17 players, it's made up of the best 17 limited overs junior players. The result is the system fast tracks aggressive batsmen and tight/economical bowlers, as opposed to batsmen with good technique's and the ability to build an innings, and bowlers who are one dimensional and can't bowl to specific plans for individual batsmen. It puts us behind the 8 ball to start. I’ve seen batsmen who can plunder hundreds if given the opportunity to bat all day (as they are in grade cricket) who get cut from the state squad because they are accumulators as opposed to dashers, and particularly spin bowlers who don’t make the squad because they don’t bowl flat or defensively enough. The results are clear when you look at guys like Hughes, Doherty, and Smith, they’re the product of the system.

The state system needs a huge shake up too, there's no incentive provided to the states for producing international quality cricketers. The incentive for players and coaches is to deliver the best possible results to their employers- the state cricket boards. It's obsurd given the states actually operate at a loss and it's Cricket Australia that provides them with their life blood. The team at CA should be putting the emphasis on the states to justify their funds, and that's by producing players that are pushing for international honours, in particular test players. Just have a look at Victoria, sure they're winning everything in sight, but their team is made up of guys like Wright, D Pattinson, Harwood, and Rogers, they're never going to offer anything to CA, and 2 of them have been brought in from interstate in the twilight of their careers. Just madness.

Coaching and development are a mess. We've got blokes playing test cricket who struggle with the basics of the game (Johnson can only land it on the pitch every second innings, Hilfenhaus has one delivery and no other variety, the captain is tactically inept, the batsmen can't even run between wickets, and when was the last time we hit the stumps for a direct hit run out?), yet most of these guys have been in the national system for a couple of years. What do the coaches actually do day in and day out with these guys?

The selection has been an embarrassment the past 5 years, no forward planning, a mates over form policy, a chairman of selectors who's a full time lawyer who works long hours and watches very little cricket, and no real accountability to anyone.

And finally, how about having the employees of CA actually being reportable to somewhere? They're a law under themselves, they dish out contract extensions despite a mountain of losses, they offer lame excuses for bizarre decisions, and at the end of the day they're never held to be accountable.

[LostDoggy]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Sacking Hilditch and Neilsen would be a great start.

[GVGjr]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Sacking Hilditch and Neilsen would be a great start.

The starting points won't mean much unless there is a complete review.

[MrMahatma]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

It's a combination of things.

Bowling: We don't bowl to a plan. We don't bowl as a team. We seem to have no idea about our opposition's strengths and weaknesses. Cook & Trott shouldn't have got the runs they did this series. We just kept bowling to their sweet spots. It seems we just thought we'd blast them out. Stupid.

It's hard to know how the current crop would perform given better guidance. However, a strike force of Hilf, Siddle, Johnson, Beer isn't going to scare too many batting line-ups around the world.

Good news is Cooley is moving on. None of our bowlers have improved under him. Fingers crossed we get a decent replacement.

Batting: IMO we have the wrong mix in the line up. Loads of stroke players and flamboyant batsmen, very few who can dig in. You need a mix. Our opening pair aren't up to it as a unit. Hughes could one day be good enough, but while we have Watson who can't pile on a big total, we need someone less agressive batting with him (no disrespect to Watson. Great average as an opener - I'd have him batting lower though).

The batting order needs a re-jig. I think we'll see it though. Punter to move down the order. Kawaja at 3. As good as he's been I'd consider retiring Hussey. IMO there's only room for one of he and Punter. On form you'd go with Hussey, but I don't think that'll happen. Also, Hussey is the best accumulator we have, so really we can't afford to drop him yet.

So what I think we need (not close enough to Shield to give suggestions on names though):
- A new opener to either replace Hughes, or allow us to move Watson down the order. OR: Play Katich for another 18months, send Hughes back to Shield and tell him he has to improve or he's not part of the new world. Use that time to seek out 1/2 new openers. I think our line up would be better with Watson in the middle order.


Selections: This really has been a joke. Watch as Doherty is never heard of again, but we picked him over Hauritz who is having just about his best seaon in FC cricket ever. I'm no Hauritz fan-boy, but he got screwed big time this summer, and for no good reason. Beer looks OK - at least he flights it well enough.

Steve Smith: What is he? A batsman? Then why is he at 7? A bowler? Then why is he bowling only a handful of overs in a marathon innings? Again, he could be something, but IMO has been picked 2-3 seasons too early.

Captaincy Well, Clarke's field placements seemed better than Punter's, but Clarke really should be under the pump for his spot based on his batting. This is a conundrum. We need in form batsmen and both Punter & Clarke aren't in form. The selectors may need to go for a stop-gap captain (Katich? Hussey? Haddin?) for 12-18 months until the picture is clearer here.

Speaking of Haddin: He need to get better at keeping. He's not going anywhere, I'm aware of that, but we need to get a bit more ruthless with his fielding performances. He's an average keeper at best. And while he makes some runs with the bat, he undoes that work often by dropping catches.


So, what does this all mean? Personally, we need a new coaching set up. (Cooley is gone but we just re-signed Neilsen until 2013...Langer should have the blow torch applied too. Our batting has been awful). And we need a selection strategy. We need the right mix of players to build a team, not just a bunch of dashers.

As Greystache mentioned though, we have problems at lower levels meaning we're not getting the right kind of players coming through.

I also agree we play too much cricket. Endless one-dayers and 20/20 games. Our test team won't improve while this continues.

[Topdog]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Less cricket, select players in form, better training sessions - you know ones where if a coach sees a bowler is bowling a no-ball every delivery they tell them to start their run up from a little further away, start fresh - bye Ponting, Clarke and Hussey, finally tell the public we are doing that and get in someone we believe will be good and make him captain.

[GVGjr]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Less cricket, select players in form, better training sessions - you know ones where if a coach sees a bowler is bowling a no-ball every delivery they tell them to start their run up from a little further away, start fresh - bye Ponting, Clarke and Hussey, finally tell the public we are doing that and get in someone we believe will be good and make him captain.

I think this should be less meaningless cricket. Nothing wrong with the best players focusing on test match cricket and the up and comers on ODI's.

I can't see how it would help the side to lose Ponting, Clarke and Hussey as tempting as it is to go down the youth road.
I've never been impressed with Clarke but unless the selectors have the bravado to pick an untried captain I guess the spot is his. If that occurs it makes Pontings positions very doubtful.
Clarke (or any other captain) may very well need Hussey to stick around.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

I think we need to mix some old with new. No point keeping Smith or Hughes if they can't cut the mustard. For mine losing JKatich meant we lost our accumulator opener and replaced him with an aggressive syrokeplayer who was not in form. Similarly we replaced an inconsistent North with a part time batsman spinner who does neither overly well. I would hold Katich or move Hussey up the order to allow some new guys to settle in a little easier.

In terms of bowling Johnson has to go. Leading wicket taker or not until he can consistently take wickets without bowlingthe dross he regularly served up this series he shouldn't be in the test team. Hilfy, gs shield bowler, but just not enough guile or ablity to move the ball. Leaks way too many runs fotr the wickets he takes.

Find some guys with the ability to bowl to a plan and to place a premium on their wickets. The difference between us and the poms was the restraint they showed in batting and the consistent ability to put the ball in the righ spot when bowling. Had our bowlers done the same the series would have been tighter. We made Cook & Trott look good!

[Topdog]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

I think this should be less meaningless cricket. Nothing wrong with the best players focusing on test match cricket and the up and comers on ODI's.

I can't see how it would help the side to lose Ponting, Clarke and Hussey as tempting as it is to go down the youth road.
I've never been impressed with Clarke but unless the selectors have the bravado to pick an untried captain I guess the spot is his. If that occurs it makes Pontings positions very doubtful.
Clarke (or any other captain) may very well need Hussey to stick around.

Yep was meaningless game I was referring to.

Hussey you can make a case for but I can't see how keeping Ponting and Clarke can help the side. Both in terrible form and offer nothing intelligent as captain and vice captain.

[Bornadog]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Good article in The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/selectors-must-find-new-order-for-next-tour-20110106-19hk4.html

Not sure I agree with his side as he keeps Hussey and Ponting and assumes Katich will recover for the Sri Lankan tour in August, but overall its a good step forward.

[Mantis]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Good article in The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/selectors-must-find-new-order-for-next-tour-20110106-19hk4.html

Not sure I agree with his side as he keeps Hussey and Ponting and assumes Katich will recover for the Sri Lankan tour in August, but overall its a good step forward.

Playing 3 uncapped bowlers on the roads they produce in Sri Lanka is a recipe for disaster, especially when 2 of them are young quicks who have suffered from back problems.

Not sure we can have Siddle of the leader of the bowlers either, he deserves to be in the team, but he needs to become a 'stock' bowler and not our no.1 striker.

[LostDoggy]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

Playing 3 uncapped bowlers on the roads they produce in Sri Lanka is a recipe for disaster, especially when 2 of them are young quicks who have suffered from back problems.

Not sure how it could be worse than we have now. To me a disaster would be we don't try anyone new.

[Topdog]

Re: How do we rebuild the Test side?

So what does Cosgrove need to do to get a mention?