Decision Review System

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  • FrediKanoute
    Coaching Staff
    • Aug 2007
    • 3814

    Decision Review System

    I want to preface this that I am in general a supporter of technology to aid decision making.

    The DRS is flawed, badly flawed. The principle of using Video in any sport is to minimise costly errors. Taking the review ability away from the adjudicators and putting it in the hands of players undermines the authority an umpire has over the game and over time will lead to poorer and poorer decisions. This is especially the case where you limit the number of review-able decisions. The biggest issue in the Broad non-dismissal wasn't that Broad didn't walk, but was that a clear error wasn't able to be overturned. Surely the point of using video technology is to enable errors like this to be reviewed and rectified.

    When you add the appalling inconsistency in reviewing LBW's (see Rogers & Watson, given out and on review it is confirmed as umpires call vs Bell given not out and confirmed as umpires call) its clear that the system is not resulting in good consistent decisions, but line ball decisions falling the way of a whim. The Hughes dismissal yesterday was yet another example. Given not out, that decision should never have been reversed, because the ball pitched didn't pitch on leg stump, half of it was outside the line......surely that should have been umpires call?

    Rugby Union have the best video review process I have seen. Most often used in the case of tries, the referee asks a specific question to the 3rd umpire and seeks clarification. It may be, "was the ball grounded?" or "was the ball grounded before the guys foot went over the line?". The 3rd umpire looks at the video and then gives his take allowing the referee to make a decision The key to the system is the questions asked as much as the video used.

    Taking the Broad decision, the umpire could have queried, without the need for a request. He could have stated, I don't think its out, is there any reason to give this out. The video ref could then review and confirm that the ball was from bat, to glove and caught allowing the correct decision to be applied. Simple, no challenge to an umpires authority.

    Applying this to the LBW, again clarification could be sought with questions asked around, in line/hitting stumps etc. So DRS is not making the decision, but aiding the decision. Watto's decision was line ball, some get given/some don't. Hughes' decision the same. One was give out and the other wasn't both DRS said both were out - where is the evening up. This is the problem. With human error at least you tend to get some decisions for you and others that don't.

    I think the Indian rejection of DRS is right the system is flawed and really is a TV driven rather than cricket driven tool.
  • boydogs
    WOOF Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 5842

    #2
    Re: Decision Review System

    Do you like the tennis one?
    If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

    Formerly gogriff

    Comment

    • LostDoggy
      WOOF Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 8307

      #3
      Re: Decision Review System

      Could this be applied to idiots in yellow who don't call advantage in AFL when every stakeholder in the game believes it should be advantage?

      Comment

      • bulldogtragic
        The List Manager
        • Jan 2007
        • 34316

        #4
        Re: Decision Review System

        Got a feeling our media might use the sequential letters of DRS about 650,000 times between now and the next test.
        Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

        Comment

        • FrediKanoute
          Coaching Staff
          • Aug 2007
          • 3814

          #5
          Re: Decision Review System

          Originally posted by gogriff
          Do you like the tennis one?
          I'm ambivalent about the tennis one, but think it works because its a binary question, "was the ball in or out?".

          Cricket is not that binary. Different pitches result in balls moving more/less after they pitch and in cricket is what happens after the ball pitches that is important. Whilst there are similarities between the Tennis system and the cricket system, the sports are different so for me what works in one doesn't necessarily work in another.

          Comment

          • FrediKanoute
            Coaching Staff
            • Aug 2007
            • 3814

            #6
            Re: Decision Review System

            My final point on why DRS is so bad is that no sporting contest should come down to a decision like that. What a terrible way to end a test match, an umpire gets it wrong and is overruled. Lets please put this farce to bed and move back to a system which served the game well, very well for over 100 years.

            Comment

            • westdog54
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Jan 2007
              • 6686

              #7
              Re: Decision Review System

              Originally posted by gogriff
              Do you like the tennis one?
              The difference in my view is that Hawkeye gives a pretty concrete picture of what did happen, whereas in Cricket it provides an accurate yet still predictive view of what 'may' have happened, hence the flaws and lack of reliability.

              As Fredi says, Rugby has it just about perfect and cricket, and to some extent football, can take a lot from what they do in a number of areas.

              Comment

              • comrade
                Hall of Fame
                • Jun 2008
                • 17932

                #8
                Re: Decision Review System

                It's a blight on the game and I hate it.

                I agree with Fredi - let the umpires go upstairs if they're not sure if there was an edge for example but keep it out of the hands of the players. The system was brought in to eliminate the howlers but it's now just abused to try and overturn the 50/50 decisions that have always been part of cricket.
                Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

                Comment

                • Bornadog
                  WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 66188

                  #9
                  Re: Decision Review System

                  Originally posted by comrade
                  It's a blight on the game and I hate it.

                  I agree with Fredi - let the umpires go upstairs if they're not sure if there was an edge for example but keep it out of the hands of the players. The system was brought in to eliminate the howlers but it's now just abused to try and overturn the 50/50 decisions that have always been part of cricket.
                  Agreed, this test has proven how farcical the whole system is.
                  FFC: Established 1883

                  Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                  Comment

                  • bulldogtragic
                    The List Manager
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 34316

                    #10
                    Re: Decision Review System

                    I think the changes to LBW adjudications have changed the whole nature of the DRS since it inception. If a captain refers a LBW for review and it indicates that he is right, that the ball was hitting the stumps (although only clipping), I find it hard that a review is taken up. Sure the ICC want to support umpires, but, if the ball is hitting the stumps it's very harsh that the decision remains not out AND a review is docked. It's not a frivolous review, unlike tennis where it's in or out and nothing in between, this new grey area is a spanner in the works. If this is to remain, and the DRS remains, than perhaps the reviews should be increased.
                    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                    Comment

                    • LostDoggy
                      WOOF Member
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 8307

                      #11
                      Re: Decision Review System

                      Originally posted by comrade
                      It's a blight on the game and I hate it.

                      I agree with Fredi - let the umpires go upstairs if they're not sure if there was an edge for example but keep it out of the hands of the players. The system was brought in to eliminate the howlers but it's now just abused to try and overturn the 50/50 decisions that have always been part of cricket.
                      I agree entirely with your post.

                      It is a blight on the game and was always going to be. If this technology must be used, it should be restricted to matters of fact, that is, run outs, stumpings and caughts with the proviso that with caughts it is restricted to whether contact was made and not whether the ball was up. It should never be used for LBW's.

                      The case against LBW's is this:

                      The Law says: If in the opinion of the umpire certain things happen then the batssman is out - if in the opinion of the umpire - taking into account where the ball pitched, where it hit and where it was going.

                      Taking them separately: Where the ball pitched. It doen't matter if part of the ball is outside of leg stump, it needs to be all outside of leg for it to fail. Bear in mind this is a preventative Law, enacted to prevent bowlers bowling pinging the ball into leg which would almost rule out scoring. And determining where the ball pitched is in the opinion of the umpire.

                      Where the ball hit : again this is in the opionion of the umpire in terms of whether it hit him in line or outside under cetrtain conditions.

                      Where the ball is going: the fact that only part of the ball is hitting the stumps is irrelevant. The law is satisfied as long as in the opinion of the umpire the ball is hitting. Where the DRS has issues is Hawkeye which as far as I can make out is a calculated determination involving some sort of maths but cannot be relied upon as being entirely accurate. For instance if the pill was going to hit Roger's stumps I will go he.

                      With respect to where the ball is going, this is the one area where the umpire at the bowlers end is far and away in the best position to make an assessment because unlike the review umpire, he is looking at a three dimensional view. In my experience the majority of LBW appeals with respect to where the ball is going fail because the pill is going over the top. The reviewing umpire with his one dimensional view has trouble recognising this.

                      Your final comment sums things up perfectly. Decisions right or wrong are part of the game and for over 120 years the game prospered without the assistance of technology. I have no issue with the use ot technology where it can be demonstrated that it is fail proof and evident of fact. for instance, I discovered long ago that an umpire cannot outdo a camera for run outs when the lunging bat can cover a foot at the speed of 1/64th of a second.

                      Some time ago in an effort to prove the short-comings of technology in certain circumstances, one leading umpire, in the knowledge that a catch had been taken cleanly close to the groung went upstairs to prove a point. The reviewing umpire could not determine beyond doubt that the catch had been taken and instructed the umpire to rule not out.

                      Let's use it where it is a query on fact and not at a whim of players trying to take advantage of a flawed system.

                      One final point to consider. All of this controversy puts the responsibility clearly back on players for ensuring that the correct outcome is achieved. All they have to do is walk when they know they're out or not appeal when thsy know the batsman should not be out.

                      Now that would make for an interesting game?

                      Comment

                      • chef
                        Hall of Fame
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 14584

                        #12
                        Re: Decision Review System

                        Wasn't it brought in for when the umpire make a howlers, not to check the 50/50 one's. I just think we use it wrong.
                        The curse is dead.

                        Comment

                        • Flamethrower
                          Senior Player
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 1360

                          #13
                          Re: Decision Review System

                          The LBW rule is controversial as it is, as it relies on an umpire predicting what is going to happen rather than just adjuicating on what has happened.

                          Using DRS for LBW decisions just means that the prediction is now done by a computer rather than a human.

                          Perhaps it is best to only use DRS for LBW decisions to see if the batsman has hit the ball or if the ball has pitched outside leg stump, and leave the predictions to the umpires.
                          Footscray member since 1980.

                          Comment

                          • Topdog
                            Bulldog Team of the Century
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 7471

                            #14
                            Re: Decision Review System

                            no DRS for LBW I'd be fine with. Happy to have it for everything else.

                            Comment

                            • FrediKanoute
                              Coaching Staff
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 3814

                              #15
                              Re: Decision Review System

                              Originally posted by EJ Smith
                              Taking them separately: Where the ball pitched. It dosen't matter if part of the ball is outside of leg stump, it needs to be all outside of leg for it to fail.
                              I didn't know this (I really feel for those bowlers I umpired for in the 4th's). I guess that means that the Hughes decision was technically correct.

                              Comment

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