Captain ve Captain

[GVGjr]

I was listening to SEN on the way home and there was some discussion on who was the better Australian captain between Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting.

I'd be interested in everyones thoughts on this?

[hujsh]

Re: Captain ve Captain

I think Ponting deserves some points for not having McGrath and Warne at their best. Both were still Very good but were getting worse. McGrath more than Warne.

[GVGjr]

Re: Captain ve Captain

I think Ponting deserves some points for not having McGrath and Warne at their best. Both were still Very good but were getting worse. McGrath more than Warne.

Granted, but what surprised me was the amount of people on SEN who clearly didn't rate Waugh as a player and as a captain.

[ledge]

Re: Captain ve Captain

Personally i think as a captain ,Ponting is the worst in the last 25 years, he inherited a good side and his decision to not have a third man in the ashes series in the UK lost him that series and also was proven to lose against India in last test. Just add up the runs given away in those series through or over slips and it speaks for itself.
I mean who plays 4 fast bowlers on a lightning pitch with short boundaries, tells them to bowl outside off stump then invites players like Tendulker to just go over the top?
3rd man would have stopped that immediately and cut down maybe 100 runs.
I dont know if coaches advise is given on those things or is it purely a captains choice on field placement?
Blind freddie could see it!
Also his throwing of the bat in dressing room after being given out when not out but not walking when he was out earlier was a disgrace,we have all played cricket long enough to know you take the good with the bad.
The man who should lead Australia and i think has the utmost respect of every playing nation is Adam Glichrist, hard,fair and honest also knows how to talk to the media.
So in answer to question, Waugh was better.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Captain ve Captain

Personally i think as a captain ,Ponting is the worst in the last 25 years, he inherited a good side and his decision to not have a third man in the ashes series in the UK lost him that series and also was proven to lose against India in last test. Just add up the runs given away in those series through or over slips and it speaks for itself.
I mean who plays 4 fast bowlers on a lightning pitch with short boundaries, tells them to bowl outside off stump then invites players like Tendulker to just go over the top?
3rd man would have stopped that immediately and cut down maybe 100 runs.
I dont know if coaches advise is given on those things or is it purely a captains choice on field placement?
Blind freddie could see it!
Also his throwing of the bat in dressing room after being given out when not out but not walking when he was out earlier was a disgrace,we have all played cricket long enough to know you take the good with the bad.
The man who should lead Australia and i think has the utmost respect of every playing nation is Adam Glichrist, hard,fair and honest also knows how to talk to the media.
So in answer to question, Waugh was better.

Can you just clarify something for me, what do you really think of Ponting?

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Captain ve Captain

Granted, but what surprised me was the amount of people on SEN who clearly didn't rate Waugh as a player and as a captain.

good thread GVG,

It is surprising re: Waugh, I thought he was a great captain. Although, I would have to give my vote to Ponting on this occasion - he has had a good team to work with.

[GVGjr]

Re: Captain ve Captain

good thread GVG,

It is surprising re: Waugh, I thought he was a great captain. Although, I would have to give my vote to Ponting on this occasion - he has had a good team to work with.

The main criticism of Waugh was that he batted for his average and that he shirked his role by batting most of his career at 6. I think a lot of people forgot that he had to face some strong West Indian teams and I'm fairly sure he batted at 3 for a series.
Ponting is the better batsman but I can't be critical of Waugh.

[hujsh]

Re: Captain ve Captain

The main criticism of Waugh was that he batted for his average and that he shirked his role by batting most of his career at 6. I think a lot of people forgot that he had to face some strong West Indian teams and I'm fairly sure he batted at 3 for a series.
Ponting is the better batsman but I can't be critical of Waugh.

Why do people seem to attack Waugh for staying at five when the other great captain at 5 (Border) is only praised for his fight?

[hujsh]

Re: Captain ve Captain

Personally i think as a captain ,Ponting is the worst in the last 25 years, he inherited a good side and his decision to not have a third man in the ashes series in the UK lost him that series and also was proven to lose against India in last test. Just add up the runs given away in those series through or over slips and it speaks for itself.
I mean who plays 4 fast bowlers on a lightning pitch with short boundaries, tells them to bowl outside off stump then invites players like Tendulker to just go over the top?
3rd man would have stopped that immediately and cut down maybe 100 runs.
I dont know if coaches advise is given on those things or is it purely a captains choice on field placement?
Blind freddie could see it!
Also his throwing of the bat in dressing room after being given out when not out but not walking when he was out earlier was a disgrace,we have all played cricket long enough to know you take the good with the bad.
The man who should lead Australia and i think has the utmost respect of every playing nation is Adam Glichrist, hard,fair and honest also knows how to talk to the media.
So in answer to question, Waugh was better.

Maybe he wanted them to play the ball in the air in the slips area because i've heard it's an alright area to catch players

I think the trowing the bat issue has been overplayed. 3 more steps and he is every player in the history of cricket.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Captain ve Captain

The selectors cost us the Ashes.

* Gillespie was bowling rubbish in the lead-up matches and was abysmal in the first test.
* Manchester always spins.
* Watson (who wasn't in the touring party) made 200 in County cricket the week before.

Had they dropped Katich and Gillespie and brought in Watson and McGill we were 2-0 up.


Waugh was a better captain than Ponting but neither could hold a candle to Tubby Taylor. Best captain we've ever had.

[hujsh]

Re: Captain ve Captain

The selectors cost us the Ashes.

* Gillespie was bowling rubbish in the lead-up matches and was abysmal in the first test.
* Manchester always spins.
* Watson (who wasn't in the touring party) made 200 in County cricket the week before.

Had they dropped Katich and Gillespie and brought in Watson and McGill we were 2-0 up.

Yes, yes, yes. They didn't even have to do it that match. Watson would at least give us a bowling option instead of Martyn or Katich (although Martyn was unlucky that whole series). It wasn't like the English were master spin players either.

[dog town]

Re: Captain ve Captain

Ponting is a little underrated as a captain probably because he has had such a good side. Behind Taylor he is one of the better skippers we have had. We finally took down India at home under Ponting and even though he was injured for the actual series I am lead to believe he had a big part in the tactical planning for that series. We went away from bowling outside off stump with 4 slips to bowling straighter with clever catching positions in front of the stumps. Even in Melbourne this series when the pitch was really slow you could see the difference. Hard to imagine Waugh being that flexible or imaginative.

[hujsh]

Re: Captain ve Captain

He will be called brillant andthen people will call for his head.

Everyone thought he was awesome then he lost the Ashes and then he was terrible.

He captained very well in Melbourne, then Roebuck said he should be sacked after Sydney.

There's a bit of a pattern