17-5 Model

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I couldn't find a thread on the subject so apologies if one exists. But what are people's thoughts on the proposed 17-5 model of fixture? The AFL are certain to move to something like this in the future. I think it's a great idea.

Pros:
- Equal fixture for all clubs. Everyone plays each other once
- Sets up a "playoffs" for the last 5 weeks of the season, which would see teams in similar ladder positions playing each other each week
- Great for the fans and tv networks with extra blockbuster games
- Gives more teams a shot at the finals so there are more meaningful games played

Cons:
- Scheduling and logistical nightmare for the AFL
- Would the last 5 "seeding" games it reduce the impact of the finals ?
- What do teams 13-18 play for?

Questions:
- How do you assign home games for the last 5 weeks?
- Do points reset after 17 games?
- What do teams 13-18 play for?


Others?

For those that aren't aware, the 17-5 model is a fixture where everybody plays each other once = 17 games
The ladder is then split into 3 groups of 6: 1-6, 7-12, 13-18
The last 5 games of the season are played against teams in your group. The results will determine seeding. A team cannot move out of their group. i.e. 7th can finish no higher than 7th and finish no lower than 12th.

So essentially you have teams 1-6 playing for the top 4 and 7-12 playing for the last 2 spots in the 8. The big question is what do teams 13-18 play for? Draft order? But this may not be fair as 13th most likely would win the group and is probably a lot stronger than 18th. Does a lottery system get implemented for 13-18 with the winner of the group playing for an extra ball in the lottery? Or do they simply play for pride?

The AFL has also floated the idea of conferences, but this seems less likely.

[chef]

Re: 17-5 Model

Id rather we just had a rolling draw. Fairest thing for everybody.

[Bornadog]

Re: 17-5 Model

Id rather we just had a rolling draw. Fairest thing for everybody.

Yep none of this contrived stuff, just roll it so every so many years we play the same team twice.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: 17-5 Model

Id rather we just had a rolling draw. Fairest thing for everybody.

Excuse my ignorance. What is a rolling draw?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 17-5 Model

Excuse my ignorance. What is a rolling draw?

I believe a rolling draw is an old wooden ship used....

No i think it's where the teams you play twice each year rolls in a certain sequence. So a team plays all 17 teams twice in a 3.x year period. So e.g. Collingwood may play Essendon twice in Year 1 but would not play them twice again until they have played all other 16 teams twice in a season.....wow this is so much harder to explain than i thought. I'm sure someone else can do a better job

[chef]

Re: 17-5 Model

Yep none of this contrived stuff, just roll it so every so many years we play the same team twice.

Yep. The AFL just love to try to hard to be innovative when there just is no need for it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 17-5 Model

Yep. The AFL just love to try to hard to be innovative when there just is no need for it.

I think it has merit. Would certainly make for more interesting games in the last 5 weeks. At the moment there are a lot of dead rubbers when the top 8 is settled. I don't really mind either way but wouldn't be unhappy with the model

[Twodogs]

Re: 17-5 Model

I believe a rolling draw is an old wooden ship used....

No i think it's where the teams you play twice each year rolls in a certain sequence. So a team plays all 17 teams twice in a 3.x year period. So e.g. Collingwood may play Essendon twice in Year 1 but would not play them twice again until they have played all other 16 teams twice in a season.....wow this is so much harder to explain than i thought. I'm sure someone else can do a better job

If we play Essendon in r1 we don't play Essendon again until we have played all the other teams then we play Essendon again in r18. If we play Richmond in r2 we don't play Richmond again until we have played all the other teams then we play Richmond again in r19. And so on every year. The team we play in r7 in any given year would be the team we play in the opening round the next year. And that would be the same every year.

Is that right?

[The Pie Man]

Re: 17-5 Model

I don't mind the concept - I like 17 games and more breaks for players better, but I get what they're trying to do within network agreements/insatiable greed.

Of course it's far from perfect - take this year for example. Teams 6-7 had a legit chance at top 4 with 5 weeks left. In a season as even as this year was, teams around the 6-8 mark will be mighty annoyed to be relegated to the 2nd tier at the conclusion of round 17.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 17-5 Model

I don't mind the concept - I like 17 games and more breaks for players better, but I get what they're trying to do within network agreements/insatiable greed.

Of course it's far from perfect - take this year for example. Teams 6-7 had a legit chance at top 4 with 5 weeks left. In a season as even as this year was, teams around the 6-8 mark will be mighty annoyed to be relegated to the 2nd tier at the conclusion of round 17.

Could you really be annoyed though? You have played all 17 teams once each. If everyone has played each other once and you finish 7th, that's a pretty accurate representation of where you should finish. The only inequality would be interstate games played i guess. i.e. we go to perth twice this year. That should not happen under a 17-5 model

[1eyedog]

Re: 17-5 Model

Inevitably I think it will be a 20 team comp with each team playing each other once and two byes.

What about a 5-17 draw? Top teams from the previous year play off at the start of the year potentially leaving them with something like 1 or 2 wins before they're let loose on the fodder. Would be interesting to see some of the better teams of the previous year play catch up.

[Bornadog]

Re: 17-5 Model

If we play Essendon in r1 we don't play Essendon again until we have played all the other teams then we play Essendon again in r18. If we play Richmond in r2 we don't play Richmond again until we have played all the other teams then we play Richmond again in r19. And so on every year. The team we play in r7 in any given year would be the team we play in the opening round the next year. And that would be the same every year.

Is that right?

Correct.

So in your example we would play Essendon in rd 1, Rd 18, then the following year round 14 etc etc - every 17 games we play Essendon.

That is a fair system. However, it could be tweaked so that we don't play the same team every opening round or every round 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. We could mix up the last 5 rounds, but over 3 plus years we would play each time twice.

[anfo27]

Re: 17-5 Model

I believe a rolling draw is an old wooden ship used....

No i think it's where the teams you play twice each year rolls in a certain sequence. So a team plays all 17 teams twice in a 3.x year period. So e.g. Collingwood may play Essendon twice in Year 1 but would not play them twice again until they have played all other 16 teams twice in a season.....wow this is so much harder to explain than i thought. I'm sure someone else can do a better job

I do love a Ron Burgundy quote squeezed into a post. Good work.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: 17-5 Model

Could you really be annoyed though? You have played all 17 teams once each. If everyone has played each other once and you finish 7th, that's a pretty accurate representation of where you should finish. The only inequality would be interstate games played i guess. i.e. we go to perth twice this year. That should not happen under a 17-5 model

I disagree. Take NOrth Melbourne as an example this year. After 9 games they were unbeaten and top of the ladder. If you were unlucky to play them during this purple patch then you lost points - were North a top 6 team come round 17? What about at seasons end? To me it would see clubs go hell for leather early, get points on the board and then coast/rest players for the middle rounds once they were certain they could not be bumped from the top 6.

AS to the impact on finals - there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. 9 weeks of finals like footy? I doubt players could cope. We have a lopsided draw. You either rectify it by making every team play each other 2 x and that means midweek games or you accept that you will inequalities that should even themselves out over time.

Your third option is to dump GCS & GWS - nobody would give a sh*t if they weren't in the competition

[LostDoggy]

Re: 17-5 Model

So teams that are 7th and 8th after 17 rounds have no chance of making the top four?
Is that how this 17-5 fixture reads?