2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

[hujsh]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

So he has expressed that he would like to leave twice in 3 years. Yep I dont understand why you'd want to keep such a player around. Clearly not happy, get what you can and move on.

I get that it's the rational thing to do in the moment but we have a player on a two year contract being offered 3 years by a rival club that is further away from the home he expressed interest in returning to previously and we've stated that a pick in the 20s is what we expect in return.

The question for me is by not enforcing his contract or demanding more appropriate compensation, by backing down no in order to get an okay-sub par outcome, do we make send the signal that we're open to be pillaged? That even when it's not a toxic Jake Stringer type situation if you can get the player to want to go to your club then we'll just take what we can get regardless of their contract status. What's the long term consequence of these deals?

GWS held firm on Shiel once they freed up the required space and got a pretty good outcome from Essendon. I'd like to see us do the same or at least demonstrate that we're prepared to not deal with a club if the deal is not worthwhile.

But perhaps the club did feel it was a fair deal and the request was just posturing. On that front I can't really judge.

[Ozza]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

I get that it's the rational thing to do in the moment but we have a player on a two year contract being offered 3 years by a rival club that is further away from the home he expressed interest in returning to previously and we've stated that a pick in the 20s is what we expect in return.

The question for me is by not enforcing his contract or demanding more appropriate compensation, by backing down no in order to get an okay-sub par outcome, do we make send the signal that we're open to be pillaged? That even when it's not a toxic Jake Stringer type situation if you can get the player to want to go to your club then we'll just take what we can get regardless of their contract status. What's the long term consequence of these deals?

GWS held firm on Shiel once they freed up the required space and got a pretty good outcome from Essendon. I'd like to see us do the same or at least demonstrate that we're prepared to not deal with a club if the deal is not worthwhile.

But perhaps the club did feel it was a fair deal and the request was just posturing. On that front I can't really judge.

I think all situations are different, and I don't think the trading of Adams sends any message to the league - given the challenges with his personality traits and his body.

[Topdog]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

So pick 29 would have been fine as we "stuck to our guns" but pick 32 is weak and backing down

[hujsh]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

So pick 29 would have been fine as we "stuck to our guns" but pick 32 is weak and backing down

No need to quote me on something I didn't say. It's not a question of being weak or making some sort of macho point as you seem to be implying I'm advocating. The question from my point of view is if our stances this and last year will impact our ability to get a good outcome in the future.

You can believe that it won't. I'm not entirely convinced either way (I was initially just stating the alternative option but am happy to play out one side of the debate. I'm probably leaning more towards the 'we've not done well' side of things as time goes by though). But based on our last two years it seems that if another team sets a requirement we find a way to meet it and if we set one we eventually compromise for a lesser outcome.

If the AFL were a completely rational business I'd completely agree with you. However emotion, competitiveness and perception all enter into the equation. We have to deal with people like Dodoro which probably means demonstrating the real possibility that we don't deal with him. Like with nuclear deterrence. The other party has to believe that you'd launch a retaliation strike for it to be effective.

[SlimPickens]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

No need to quote me on something I didn't say. It's not a question of being weak or making some sort of macho point as you seem to be implying I'm advocating. The question from my point of view is if our stances this and last year will impact our ability to get a good outcome in the future.

You can believe that it won't. I'm not entirely convinced either way (I was initially just stating the alternative option but am happy to play out one side of the debate. I'm probably leaning more towards the 'we've not done well' side of things as time goes by though). But based on our last two years it seems that if another team sets a requirement we find a way to meet it and if we set one we eventually compromise for a lesser outcome.

If the AFL were a completely rational business I'd completely agree with you. However emotion, competitiveness and perception all enter into the equation. We have to deal with people like Dodoro which probably means demonstrating the real possibility that we don't deal with him. Like with nuclear deterrence. The other party has to believe that you'd launch a retaliation strike for it to be effective.

I understand your point and if it was just the one pick in isolation, I’d most likely agree. But given Brisbane also gave up a third round pick for next year, I think we clearly won the trade. We all tend to overrate players at the time of year and Marcus was no exception. I feel like we simply haven’t seen enough of him at senior level, to decide one way or another if he was going to be a player for us.

[Sedat]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The Adams scenario reminds me of what we didn't do when we had the chance with Josh Hill. From memory a good mid range pick in the low 30's was offered and Fantastia thought he was worth more lol. We got a crap 60's pick 12 months later.

I reckon the same thing would have happened with Adams in 12 months' time - we have turned a pick 35 a few years ago for a mature age player into a better pick and a future 3rd rounder despite him barely getting on the park in his 3 years at the club. That is extracting as high a value for him as could reasonably be expected (unless you're a stubborn dickhead like Stephen Wells asking for pick 20, pick 22 and a future 1st rounder for Tim Kelly).

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The Adams scenario reminds me of what we didn't do when we had the chance with Josh Hill. From memory a good mid range pick in the low 30's was offered and Fantastia thought he was worth more lol. We got a crap 60's pick 12 months later.

I reckon the same thing would have happened with Adams in 12 months' time - we have turned a pick 35 a few years ago for a mature age player into a better pick and a future 3rd rounder despite him barely getting on the park in his 3 years at the club. That is extracting as high a value for him as could reasonably be expected (unless you're a stubborn dickhead like Stephen Wells asking for pick 20, pick 22 and a future 1st rounder for Tim Kelly).

The interesting part of that point is that Wells has a bit of a reputation of not squeezing the most out of trades but yes he seemed to be wanting overs of Kelly. Pick 20 and a future 1st rounder should have been enough. It's not like they had 3 years invested in him

[Sedat]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The interesting part of that point is that Wells has a bit of a reputation of not squeezing the most out of trades but yes he seemed to be wanting overs of Kelly. Pick 20 and a future 1st rounder should have been enough. It's not like they had 3 years invested in him

It is rip shit or bust in 2019 for Geelong. They have to win the flag and Kelly the Norm Smith to justify such idiotic posturing. But because they are Geelong and have many meeedya friends, they are praised for their 'strong stance'.

[mjp]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The interesting part of that point is that Wells has a bit of a reputation of not squeezing the most out of trades but yes he seemed to be wanting overs of Kelly. Pick 20 and a future 1st rounder should have been enough. It's not like they had 3 years invested in him

I don't think what he was asking for was unreasonable.

The kid missed out on the B&F by 1/2 of one vote. He is 22. West Coast are counting on getting him next year which will not be that easy...they should have done it now.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

I don't think what he was asking for was unreasonable.

The kid missed out on the B&F by 1/2 of one vote. He is 22. West Coast are counting on getting him next year which will not be that easy...they should have done it now.

I get that he had a very good season but he cost them a 2nd rounder and he would get them a 1st rounder and an end of 1st round picks in return after one season. Perhaps West Coast could have added a touch more but the 3 picks they requested was always going to be unlikely. They both needed a 3rd club involved but couldn't find someone to facilitate it with them

By the way, Kelly is 24.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The Age has listed these players as looking for a lifeline.

Any of them interest you for say our last pick at the draft?

10 key delisted or out-of-contract players
Tom Sheridan, 24, (Fremantle) 81 games
Jordan Foote, 22, (Sydney Swans) six games
Michael Barlow, 30, (Fremantle/Gold Coast) 141 games
Jarryd Blair, 28, (Collingwood) 157 games
Dan Menzel, 27, (Geelong) 73 games
Billy Hartung, 23, (North Melbourne/Hawthorn) 76 games
Brendan Whitecross, 28, (Hawthorn) 111 games
Jordan Murdoch, 26, (Geelong) 108 games
Jacob Townsend, 25 (GWS/Richmond) 47 games
Tom Bugg, 25, (GWS/Melbourne) 96 games

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The Age has listed these players as looking for a lifeline.

Any of them interest you for say our last pick at the draft?

10 key delisted or out-of-contract players
Tom Sheridan, 24, (Fremantle) 81 games
Jordan Foote, 22, (Sydney Swans) six games
Michael Barlow, 30, (Fremantle/Gold Coast) 141 games
Jarryd Blair, 28, (Collingwood) 157 games
Dan Menzel, 27, (Geelong) 73 games
Billy Hartung, 23, (North Melbourne/Hawthorn) 76 games
Brendan Whitecross, 28, (Hawthorn) 111 games
Jordan Murdoch, 26, (Geelong) 108 games
Jacob Townsend, 25 (GWS/Richmond) 47 games
Tom Bugg, 25, (GWS/Melbourne) 96 games

Some, not all, looking to make a play for Eker Hall of Fame.

If we were interested in Will Hayes, the question would be whether Townend could do a better job in the specific role. If so, maybe Hayes is looked at in the rookie draft.

[Happy Days]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The Age has listed these players as looking for a lifeline.

Any of them interest you for say our last pick at the draft?

10 key delisted or out-of-contract players
Tom Sheridan, 24, (Fremantle) 81 games
Jordan Foote, 22, (Sydney Swans) six games
Michael Barlow, 30, (Fremantle/Gold Coast) 141 games
Jarryd Blair, 28, (Collingwood) 157 games
Dan Menzel, 27, (Geelong) 73 games
Billy Hartung, 23, (North Melbourne/Hawthorn) 76 games
Brendan Whitecross, 28, (Hawthorn) 111 games
Jordan Murdoch, 26, (Geelong) 108 games
Jacob Townsend, 25 (GWS/Richmond) 47 games
Tom Bugg, 25, (GWS/Melbourne) 96 games

No thanks.

Pretty depressing how the guys we did pick up would look right at home on that list too.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Menzel for free on a 2 year deal. I would do it

[ratsmac]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Menzel for free on a 2 year deal. I would do it

Yep, I'd do Menzel for free.. hang on that didn't come out right, but you know what I mean.