The Israel Folau saga

[Dry Rot]

Dunno where to post this, so I'll try here since he once played for the Giants.

What is our take on all this? Defend his right to free speech or use the old role model argument and he should not do it?

What if an AFL player tweeted the same? Or liked his post, like Ablett and the Blue's Kennedy did?

And I suppose while I'm at it, what about the NRL Saints player charged with rape who is not allowed to play but is currently innocent until proven guilty?

I know neither are directly AFL, but it's a matter of time before similar circumstances arise with AFL players.

[Dry Rot]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

His actual Instagram post lists a eight claimed bad folk going to Hell:

Drunks
Homosexuals
Adulterers
Liars
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-11/israel-folau-slammed-over-latest-anti-gay-comments/10991574

How many categories do you fit into? I'm in an least 6/8.

Interesting that the ARU case is only about one of those.

[Grantysghost]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

His actual Instagram post lists a eight claimed bad folk going to Hell:

Drunks
Homosexuals
Adulterers
Liars
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-11/israel-folau-slammed-over-latest-anti-gay-comments/10991574

How many categories do you fit into? I'm in an least 6/8.

Interesting that the ARU case is only about one of those.

I'm more concerned about this hell place I actually believed was fictional.....
Don't tell me it's just the 97 prelim fourth quarter on loop...! Arghhhhhhhh

[Ghost Dog]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

If he loses his job for re-posting something like that, his lawyers will be rubbing their hands.


I heard one commentator make two points. Qantas has deals with Emirates, which is Dubai, very anti-gay and strict. Don't see them making too much noise about that....A huge proportion of rugby players are islanders with uber-religious beliefs. Surely we are tolerant enough as a society just to try and sit down with him and work it out with them rather than start sacking people, which I think will make it worse. I also think having players wear rainbow jumpers, shoelaces and that kind of thing is well intentioned but ham-fisted. I'm always pleased to see a few rainbow flags at the footy, and it should be indivudual's right to express themselves. But if AFL or NRL house is determined to demonise those who see it differently I think it will bring about more harm than good.
I hope the first AFL gay player comes out as soon as possible. It will be better for the game.

[Dry Rot]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

I'm more concerned about this hell place I actually believed was fictional.....
Don't tell me it's just the 97 prelim fourth quarter on loop...! Arghhhhhhhh

At least that fourth quarter holds some hope for part of it.

But what if Hell is individualised? e.g. say for TwoDogs, he has to watch footage of Ben Harrison playing for the Dogs....for eternity.

[Dry Rot]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

If he loses his job for re-posting something like that, his lawyers will be rubbing their hands.
A huge proportion of rugby players are islanders with uber-religious beliefs. Surely we are tolerant enough as a society just to try and sit down with him and work it out with them rather than start sacking people, which I think will make it worse.

I heard one commentator point out that Qantas has deals with Emirates, which is Dubai, very anti-gay and strict. Don't see them making too much noise about that....

Agreed - there's some interesting hypocrisy going on here.

[jeemak]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

His problem is that the governing body pulled him into line specifically for the same thing last year, he's signed a contract that specifically advises he can't disseminate this type of thing on social media as an Australian contracted player and he's ignored it and done it again.

It's not an issue that should be conflated with free speech. It's a breach of contract issue, the governing body realised this was damaging to their brand last time so they tied it off and thoroughly warned him off doing it again.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

His problem is that the governing body pulled him into line specifically for the same thing last year, he's signed a contract that specifically advises he can't disseminate this type of thing on social media as an Australian contracted player and he's ignored it and done it again.

It's not an issue that should be conflated with free speech. It's a breach of contract issue, the governing body realised this was damaging to their brand last time so they tied it off and thoroughly warned him off doing it again.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

Good points. Of course, if its in his contract, he should loose his job. Gay men are four times more likely to commit suicide than hetrosexual men. These kinds of comments are not needed.

[jeemak]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

Good points. Of course, if its in his contract, he should loose his job. Gay men are four times more likely to commit suicide than hetrosexual men. These kinds of comments are not needed.

If he was a regular Joe, or retired and not bound by contract then so be it he's expressed his opinion for better or worse.

The issue is certain elements of the commentariat (i.e. the IPA) are trying to conflate this matter with free speech during an election campaign and people are swallowing it.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

That's right. If you sign a contract you sign it.

[hujsh]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

Freedom of speech only really protects you from the government. If you want to speak out about these things you aren't free from all consequence. Folau was warned and apparently agreed/signed a contract saying he'd not publicly express these views so I guess there's not much room left for him to move in.

That said I'm only really comfortable with the situation because I disagree with his views. If he was a Kaepernick-like figure I'd probably be rather unimpressed and the people defending Folau would be gloating about how athletes should shut up about politics.

[Axe Man]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

His problem is that the governing body pulled him into line specifically for the same thing last year, he's signed a contract that specifically advises he can't disseminate this type of thing on social media as an Australian contracted player and he's ignored it and done it again.

It's not an issue that should be conflated with free speech. It's a breach of contract issue, the governing body realised this was damaging to their brand last time so they tied it off and thoroughly warned him off doing it again.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

Actually it's been reported that the bolded part is not true. RA screwed up and forgot to insert the social media clause, they tried to insert it after Folou had signed, but he refused. This will be one of the keys to his appeal.

[Jeanette54]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

Whatever happened to, "I do not agree with what you say, but I will forever defend your right to say it".

No doubt these are his genuine beliefs, sincerely held, so why should he not be allowed to share them.

So much of the media these days pander to the politically correct, left wing driven censorship which is the modern way.

We talk about the left and the right as a diametrically opposed straight line, but I see it as a globe. If you go far enough to the left you eventually arrive back to the extreme right (fascism). Freedom of speech is the cornerstone of true democracy.

If you don't like someone's genuinely held opinions, don't look to silence them, look to debate them and prove that they are wrong.

And, yes, I am probably going to hell.

[Grantysghost]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

Whatever happened to, "I do not agree with what you say, but I will forever defend your right to say it".

No doubt these are his genuine beliefs, sincerely held, so why should he not be allowed to share them.

So much of the media these days pander to the politically correct, left wing driven censorship which is the modern way.

We talk about the left and the right as a diametrically opposed straight line, but I see it as a globe. If you go far enough to the left you eventually arrive back to the extreme right (fascism). Freedom of speech is the cornerstone of true democracy.

If you don't like someone's genuinely held opinions, don't look to silence them, look to debate them and prove that they are wrong.

And, yes, I am probably going to hell.

Intelligent debate has been usurped by social media outrage....It's the era of outrage. There's nothing better than destroying ignorant beliefs with well researched educated arguments.

[Daughter of the West]

Re: The Israel Folau saga

Intelligent debate has been usurped by social media outrage....It's the era of outrage. There's nothing better than destroying ignorant beliefs with well researched educated arguments.

Sadly in this day and age, shouting "FAKE NEWS!!!" and sticking fingers in ears shuts down any educated argument.