Proactive Poaching

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Paying Keath for that money for one year is a huge investment for a player who has had one good year . Can we afford both Bruce and Keath on such contracts , given we have a growing talent pool ?
How does it balance out salary cap for next 4 years ?
I Guess no risk no reward . Be bold throw the kitchen sink , to want the next premiership

Keath has been on talent scout radars since he was a kid, chose cricket over footy despite being pre-listed to Gold Coast as a 17 year old so he's not just a late bloomer. Adelaide have issues with keeping players past 30 on long contracts (Betts, Jenkins) so won't offer him more than 2 years. It's length of contract which is the only reason he's gettable.

He's always had talent and we know Bevo rates intercept markers in the back half. We have a ton of cap space and have to find ways to use it, only part of it will be retention.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Frost is a decent defender with experience but is he really much of an upgrade on say Fletcher Roberts?

For mine he is the complete opposite to Roberts.
Roberts is slow but a natural footballer with a long kick. Frost is an excellent athlete with the footy IQ of a turnip. Super quick, especially for his height.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Depends if he passes a medical and the cost. The following is for conversation only:

If Dodoro is desperate to 'win' trade week we could offer up pick 12 so they can 'steal' Jack Martin from Carlton (salary from Hurley is the salary cap room). But only for absurd win for our club. Their picks of possibly 29 & 31 are equal to pick 12. But we'd want to burn them or no deal.

No way to pick 12 for Hurley. It will be a salary dump, if he costs us anything significant at the trade table I hope we walk away. I'd imagine pick 12 will be needed to get Keath/Bruce across the line by trading it down.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

No way to pick 12 for Hurley. It will be a salary dump, if he costs us anything significant at the trade table I hope we walk away. I'd imagine pick 12 will be needed to get Keath/Bruce across the line by trading it down.

That's what that discussion point was about, trading pick 12 (mid first round) down to two second rounders (mid second rounds) for use on other trades to secure other players and Hurley is just steak knives in the trade. I'm not advocating it per se, more identifying that they may be after a pick like pick 12 and what could we demand to exploit their desperation to 'win' trade week by stealing Jack Martin. My preference would be to keep our eyes open for other potential trades with pick 12.

[Bornadog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

That's what that discussion point was about, trading pick 12 (mid first round) down to two second rounders (mid second rounds) for use on other trades to secure other players and Hurley is just steak knives in the trade. I'm not advocating it per se, more identifying that they may be after a pick like pick 12 and what could we demand to exploit their desperation to 'win' trade week by stealing Jack Martin. My preference would be to keep our eyes open for other potential trades with pick 12.

Carlton are chasing alot of players. Have they got much to offer for pick 12?

[GVGjr]

Re: Proactive Poaching

For mine he is the complete opposite to Roberts.
Roberts is slow but a natural footballer with a long kick. Frost is an excellent athlete with the footy IQ of a turnip. Super quick, especially for his height.

So is he an upgrade?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Carlton are chasing alot of players. Have they got much to offer for pick 12?

It's Essendon chasing pick 12 potentially. You're right, Carlton are under the pump. Which if Essendon can offer us a big win on pick 12 lands them Martin. But it needs to be a big win for us or nothing.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

So is he an upgrade?

Perhaps a little, looks like he'll be a Hawk though. That probably helps us in the Keath chase.

[hujsh]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I think the big question for me, as we look set to miss yet another indigenous target, is who're the indigenous players left we're targeting. This is clearly a glaring issue for the club and one that I'd like to see partially addressed before JUH rocks up to the club next year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see Keath, Bruce, Smith or whoever join if the deal is right but I'll feel uncomfortable if we enter 2020 with this bloke as our indigenous representative (no disrespect intended to him)

[Doc26]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I think the big question for me, as we look set to miss yet another indigenous target, is who're the indigenous players left we're targeting. This is clearly a glaring issue for the club and one that I'd like to see partially addressed before JUH rocks up to the club next year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see Keath, Bruce, Smith or whoever join if the deal is right but I'll feel uncomfortable if we enter 2020 with this bloke as our indigenous representative (no disrespect intended to him)

I don't profess to know the subject matter well but just listening to Gilbert McAdam talk on the very subject he believes its starts with gaining a senior indigenous figure, then junior, then senior, then junior etc etc , with the junior developing to take on the the senior role. Bob Murphy replied that we just haven't had recent success with our indigenous players developing / or staying the distance, naming the many that just haven't come on for varying reasons. I'm sure that there are exceptions to this rule but it sounds good in theory, at least to the layman. Maybe we should consider investing in a 'senior' first e.g. maybe get in Cyril's or Shaun's ear for a potential playing / career development role.

[Bornadog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I don't profess to know the subject matter well but just listening to Gilbert McAdam talk on the very subject he believes its starts with gaining a senior indigenous figure, then junior, then senior, then junior etc etc , with the junior developing to take on the the senior role. Bob Murphy replied that we just haven't had recent success with our indigenous players developing / or staying the distance, naming the many that just haven't come on for varying reasons. I'm sure that there are exceptions to this rule but it sounds good in theory, at least to the layman. Maybe we should consider investing in a 'senior' first e.g. maybe get in Cyril's or Shaun's ear for a potential playing / career development role.

At least we have a Board Member who is indigenous and was involved in setting up Richmond's programme. I do agree we need a senior player of some sorts to help on the player side.

[Rocket Science]

Re: Proactive Poaching

There's a 'senior' indigenous player who could probably be prised out of the Crows.

If we're serious about attracting more indigenous talent I'm sure that'd help get our foot further in the door.

[1eyedog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I would like one at a coaching level. I'd enquire about Xavier Clarke at Richmond if we're serious. He's well respected and is embedded in a successful system. If he met Martin it may have been different.

[Axe Man]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Western Bulldogs strike out on Jack Martin despite massive contract offer

Western Bulldogs have struck out on another indigenous player with unfulfilled talent Jack Martin set to join Carlton.

The Bulldogs tabled Martin the most generous offer — as much as $700,000 per season for five years — but the outside ball winner has rejected overtures from Whitten Oval and Fremantle, leaving the Blues in pole position to strike a trade.

Martin, 24, will still earn a long-term deal at the Blues but will play for less cash, joining indigenous players Sam Petrevski-Seton and former Dog Liam Jones.

It is the third time in as many years that the Dogs have failed to recruit an indigenous talent, largely because they do not have any indigenous players on their list.

In 2017 they heavily pursued Port Adelaide utility Jarman Impey, who dined with Bulldog leaders including Marcus Bontempelli at Crown Casino as he mulled their contract offer.

Impey’s close friend, Jackson Trengove, had signed at the Dogs as a free agent in recent weeks and was pushing Impey to join him.

But when Impey learned that there weren’t any indigenous players at the Bulldogs he instead accepted Hawthorn’s offer, where he played alongside superstars Cyril Rioli and Shaun Burgoyne.

[Axe Man]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Sorry have to split the posts as keep getting the stupid 403 error.

The following year Chad Wingard was choosing between the Dogs and Hawks, but with Impey at Waverley Park and still no indigenous stars at the Dogs, the dual All-Australian picked Hawthorn.

Dogs president Peter Gordon has conceded that the club’s lack of indigenous players was likely to have dented their hopes of landing Wingard.

But the Bulldogs boast an elite welfare system and recently had Brett Goodes helping drive the change as the club’s indigenous liason officer.

“We can’t solve that problem overnight and we have tried to take a multi-faceted approach to it,” Gordon said recently.

“We might potentially draft two or three (indigenous players) in any particular year and they will be a part of a sea change of the history and culture of the club.

The Bulldogs have priority access to indigenous teenage sensation Jamarra Ugle-Hagan through their academy and are keen to draft the key forward in 2020.

Missing out on Martin will only strengthen the Dogs’ chances of securing bookends Josh Bruce (St Kilda) and Alex Keath (Adelaide).

The Dogs boast a war chest and Bruce appears certain to cross on a long-term deal, possibly in exchange for a second-round pick.

Martin played with Carlton captain and former WA junior Patrick Cripps as a junior and feels he could easily feel at home at the Blues.

The pair played in the Under-15 schoolboys together with Martin at boarding school in Geraldton, 30 minutes away from Cripps’ home town of Northampton.

It is another sign of Cripps’ powerful stature as Carlton’s co-captain when players like Martin are keen to be in his orbit.

Gold Coast will request a first-round pick from the Blues, who could need pick 8 to get Tom Papley.

It means they will have challenges in securing Papley and Martin, with the Blues also linked to Dan Butler and Sydney ruckman Darcy Cameron.

Martin has been a frustrating player who has not yet maximised his potential despite two top-three best-and-fairest finishes, no one doubts his talent.

Carlton is still investigating pursuing former star Eddie Betts but will not offer him a deal past one season and Adelaide won’t pay him to play somewhere else.