Hawthorn

[Axe Man]

Re: Hawthorn

Appears Scully lost the appetite to ride a rebuild.

As an aside, the McEvoy appointment has strong Richie Vandenberg as skipper vibes.

She's gonna be a long road back for the Hawkers and I can't wait to begin hearing about their president's opinions on it.

I heard a theory that McEvoy is just keeping the seat warm for Sicily to become captain in a year or 2. He must have really matured if he is suddenly captaincy material as he has generally come across as anything but on the field from what I have seen.

[Mofra]

Re: Hawthorn

Appears Scully lost the appetite to ride a rebuild.

As an aside, the McEvoy appointment has strong Richie Vandenberg as skipper vibes.

She's gonna be a long road back for the Hawkers and I can't wait to begin hearing about their president's opinions on it.

They've gone hard at trading in players at the expense of high-draft end talent. I'm not sure the mystique of Clarkson will be enough to lure players to the club anymore given they aren't challenging and don't seem like they will be for quite some time.

[Twodogs]

Re: Hawthorn

I don't ever want to hear anything from their president about anything, ever.

I've been having fun winding him up on Twitter. It's a hobby of mine.

[mjp]

Re: Hawthorn

They've gone hard at trading in players at the expense of high-draft end talent. I'm not sure the mystique of Clarkson will be enough to lure players to the club anymore given they aren't challenging and don't seem like they will be for quite some time.

Can we go with the 'Mystique of luring players to the club?'.

Lost: Buddy.
Gained: Mitchell - massive cost that no-one else would pay, no success since.
Gained: O'Meara - see Mitchell
Gained: Scully - Salary cap dump, no success since
Gained: Gunston - transfer back from interstate...Fair enough
Gained: Dew - Fat, no-one else wanted him.
Gained: Burgoyne - Chronic knees, no-one else wanted him.
Gained: Lake - Club in transition, targeted recruiting...Good Get.
Gained: Frawley - Bottom feeding club in turmoil, good timing (and good get).

Who have I missed? It must be someone...Their success was based on finishing down the bottom and maximising their draft picks - some of that was through Richmond's stupidity...some was our own fixation on Gryphon. Franlin, Roughead + Lewis in one draft? Slam DUNK. Hodge over Ball and Judd? Slam DUNK. Mitchell via the VFL? Slam DUNK. Birchall? Smith? Rioli? All of the cornerstones of the 4-premierships - even going back to Crawford, Bateman et al in 2008 - were drafted by the club.

[Happy Days]

Re: Hawthorn

Can we go with the 'Mystique of luring players to the club?'.

Lost: Buddy.
Gained: Mitchell - massive cost that no-one else would pay, no success since.
Gained: O'Meara - see Mitchell
Gained: Scully - Salary cap dump, no success since
Gained: Gunston - transfer back from interstate...Fair enough
Gained: Dew - Fat, no-one else wanted him.
Gained: Burgoyne - Chronic knees, no-one else wanted him.
Gained: Lake - Club in transition, targeted recruiting...Good Get.
Gained: Frawley - Bottom feeding club in turmoil, good timing (and good get).

Who have I missed? It must be someone...Their success was based on finishing down the bottom and maximising their draft picks - some of that was through Richmond's stupidity...some was our own fixation on Gryphon. Franlin, Roughead + Lewis in one draft? Slam DUNK. Hodge over Ball and Judd? Slam DUNK. Mitchell via the VFL? Slam DUNK. Birchall? Smith? Rioli? All of the cornerstones of the 4-premierships - even going back to Crawford, Bateman et al in 2008 - were drafted by the club.

But what about Josh Gibson and Shaun Burgoyne, who Hawthorn will have you believe were the only reason they won all those flags and that they were put into a position to trade for elite talent off the base of a sustained period of successful drafting was totally irrelevant.

[Axe Man]

Re: Hawthorn

Patton, Impey, Wingard in recent seasons could be added to the list. McEvoy from further back.

[mjp]

Re: Hawthorn

But what about Josh Gibson and Shaun Burgoyne, who Hawthorn will have you believe were the only reason they won all those flags and that they were put into a position to trade for elite talent off the base of a sustained period of successful drafting was totally irrelevant.

I missed Gibson - I had Burgoyne in there.

[mjp]

Re: Hawthorn

Patton, Impey, Wingard in recent seasons could be added to the list. McEvoy from further back.

Again though - Wingard, Patton and Impey have led to zero success....

I just think the myth of the Hawks premierships is that it was all about recruiting mature free agents when the reality is it was based on finishing last and getting a really strong draft hand.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Hawthorn

Youve forgotten the people's wig.
David Hale.

[Axe Man]

Re: Hawthorn

Again though - Wingard, Patton and Impey have led to zero success....

I just think the myth of the Hawks premierships is that it was all about recruiting mature free agents when the reality is it was based on finishing last and getting a really strong draft hand.

I may have misinterpreted the discussion but I didn't see any mention of their premiership success. I took it more as an observation that since then they have consistently traded out draft picks and now they find themselves in a hole.

[Mofra]

Re: Hawthorn

Can we go with the 'Mystique of luring players to the club?'.

Lost: Buddy.
Gained: Mitchell - massive cost that no-one else would pay, no success since.
Gained: O'Meara - see Mitchell
Gained: Scully - Salary cap dump, no success since
Gained: Gunston - transfer back from interstate...Fair enough
Gained: Dew - Fat, no-one else wanted him.
Gained: Burgoyne - Chronic knees, no-one else wanted him.
Gained: Lake - Club in transition, targeted recruiting...Good Get.
Gained: Frawley - Bottom feeding club in turmoil, good timing (and good get).

Who have I missed? It must be someone...Their success was based on finishing down the bottom and maximising their draft picks - some of that was through Richmond's stupidity...some was our own fixation on Gryphon. Franlin, Roughead + Lewis in one draft? Slam DUNK. Hodge over Ball and Judd? Slam DUNK. Mitchell via the VFL? Slam DUNK. Birchall? Smith? Rioli? All of the cornerstones of the 4-premierships - even going back to Crawford, Bateman et al in 2008 - were drafted by the club.

Going back 13 years (!) isn't a measure of the state of their current list, which hasn't seen much top-end draft talent in recent times.

I disagree on some of the 'lured' players - Tom Mitchell's performance for what they paid is solid or better, O'Meara they paid through the nose but every Victorian club would have asked the question.
Of the players not mentioned - Impey I liked (we lost out despite being Trengove's best mate!). Frost, Patton & Scrimshaw not so much. Michington as a DFA barely counts.

Let's not forget we went hard at Wingard only to lose out to Hawthorn as well.

In 2019 & 2020 they used first round picks (Day looks good, and DGB was just BOG in their intra-club by all accounts).
Then you have to go back to 2015 before you see another first round pick - Burton at pick 19 who has since left the club.

Edit: Then you have to go back to 2010 for their previous first round pick - Issac Smith at pick 19.

I agree their success was based on draft picks, a strategy they haven't followed in recent years as they went hard at the trade table. I do believe some of those players that have come to the club did sign, in part, due to Clarkson.

[Mofra]

Re: Hawthorn

I just think the myth of the Hawks premierships is that it was all about recruiting mature free agents when the reality is it was based on finishing last and getting a really strong draft hand.

True, but that's not the point that was raised here.

[Bornadog]

Re: Hawthorn

I just think the myth of the Hawks premierships is that it was all about recruiting mature free agents when the reality is it was based on finishing last and getting a really strong draft hand.

I agree

True, but that's not the point that was raised here.

But a bloody good point.

The last few years have been stupidity in trying to get broken down players cheaply and slotting them in - this has lead to no success and now they find themselves in a bind. Wasted 5 years of many draft picks

[Mofra]

Re: Hawthorn

The last few years have been stupidity in trying to get broken down players cheaply and slotting them in - this has lead to no success and now they find themselves in a bind. Wasted 5 years of many draft picks

I don't mind using late picks on 'known quantities' if you're taking low risk/high return types.
As per some above posts, Hawthorn basically ignored the first round of the draft for a decade (with the one player taken in an 8 year stretch now at Port). That is unsustainable in the long term.

They're in for a world of pain and it's telling that their three captaincy prospects for 2021 (McEvoy, O'Meara & Mitchell) were trade ins.

[mjp]

Re: Hawthorn

I don't mind using late picks on 'known quantities' if you're taking low risk/high return types.

Can you give me an example of where this has ever worked though?

Low risk, high return? As an experienced player? I guess Roughead going to Collingwood? I don't know - late pick I think you almost want the opposite...it's a late pick so take a chance trying something great...I just think selecting foot soldiers late in the draft is so often the same as drafting VFL players.

And then of course there was Daniel Cross (and a heap of others I'm about to have thrown at me) but at least they were kids. I guess that's been my whole objection with the Hannan trade...Low risk, low reward is how I see that one...