2020 Player movement

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2020 Player movement

The free agency sucks balls, and with Lynch and now Cameron ending up in GF teams makes me sick. Simple way to stop this is...the top 4 clubs can’t get a free agent OVER $500,000 per year over their contract.

So IF someone like Cameron is soooooo desperate to go and live in a rural city like Geelong, then fine, but earn up to $500,000 a year instead of $800,000+ and see if you’re so desperate.

This is just another reason to hate Geelong even more.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: 2020 Player movement

Or.......... make them pay with draft points like father/sons.

The free agency sucks balls, and with Lynch and now Cameron ending up in GF teams makes me sick. Simple way to stop this is...the top 4 clubs can’t get a free agent OVER $500,000 per year over their contract.

So IF someone like Cameron is soooooo desperate to go and live in a rural city like Geelong, then fine, but earn up to $500,000 a year instead of $800,000+ and see if you’re so desperate.

This is just another reason to hate Geelong even more.

[soupman]

Re: 2020 Player movement

The free agency sucks balls, and with Lynch and now Cameron ending up in GF teams makes me sick. Simple way to stop this is...the top 4 clubs can’t get a free agent OVER $500,000 per year over their contract.

So IF someone like Cameron is soooooo desperate to go and live in a rural city like Geelong, then fine, but earn up to $500,000 a year instead of $800,000+ and see if you’re so desperate.

This is just another reason to hate Geelong even more.

I am all for sticking the boot into Geelong however on the big free agency moves involving them they have:
-Lost Gary Ablett to what was effectively free agency, receiving a mid first round pick as compensation for possibly the best player of his generation if not ever.
-Acquired Patrick Dangerfield who was a free agent, but as Adelaide matched the offer still meant they had to find the trade capital to give back, which ended up being pick 9, 28 and Dean Gore. I know clearly not full value but also not "free".
-Acquired Scott Selwood and Luke Dahlhaus both as free agents, which seems like the mid tier players finding new clubs as we are all fine with.
-Lost Motlop to free agency and used the compo pick on Ablett, effectively trading the two.
-Now have Jeremy Cameron nominating them, but he is a restricted free agent, which means GWS will match and they'll probably end up trading two first rounders for him.

So whilst they have been involved with a bunch of free agents, and high profile ones at that, their two biggest recruits through the system (Dangerfield and Cameron) were hardly free, and their biggest loss (Ablett, whose departure surely cost them at least one flag seeing as he was clearly the best player in the comp) gave them not very much in compensation which was offset somewhat when he returned for free after his prime.

Also

Simple way to stop this is...the top 4 clubs can’t get a free agent OVER $500,000 per year over their contract.

Would this actually make a difference in the Cameron example? If you play it out:
-Cameron is out of contract and a free agent for effectively everyone except Geelong (and Richmond, Port and Brisbane).
-Geelong still make an offer to him, of whatever they are currently offering, and he accepts as he is after all out of contract.
-As Cameron is not a free agent available to Geelong, they are forced to trade for him, which is exactly the same scenario they are facing now as GWS will match their offer.

It's not a bad idea nd would certainly be very helpful in the Lynch example, but where the player is a RFA I think it makes zero difference unless the other club gets an amazing draft pick from the compensation scheme, which is another matter entirely.

[Twodogs]

Re: 2020 Player movement

I don't think it's that cut and dry. You can't discount some of the circumstances with personnel and what made them perform sub-optimally, you can't discount some of the losses from the list due to misfortune. I'll never excuse some of the attitudes post the grand final victory but it's only a part of the story, and sometimes one that takes too much of the focus. Overall the club has performed admirably off field.

Still, I guess the point is the benchmark for us to compete with the bigger more favoured clubs in attracting marquee personnel is so high that the chances of meeting the criteria are extremely slim. That's the thing about systemic disadvantage, whether it be in society generally or in sporting codes like the AFL.

The club continues to make honest attempts to attract really good players post 2016 and I have very little doubt they're targeting players of need much like we did in 2019. I'm not saying the club hasn't made mistakes but I struggle to imagine us landing top tier talent unless we have an almost meticulous record of perfection over a long period of time.

Exactly. It's not as simple as the "discipline was poor" narrative would have it. Every club has discipline problems and most handle them the same way. It depends on how valuable you are to the club on field as to how big the punishment is handed out is.

My biggest problem with the club is the same coaching panel being in place year after year. The biggest issue being the lack of anyone being in a position for Bevo to run ideas past/tell him some of his tactical thinking isn't up to scratch.

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2020 Player movement

I am all for sticking the boot into Geelong however on the big free agency moves involving them they have:
-Lost Gary Ablett to what was effectively free agency, receiving a mid first round pick as compensation for possibly the best player of his generation if not ever.
-Acquired Patrick Dangerfield who was a free agent, but as Adelaide matched the offer still meant they had to find the trade capital to give back, which ended up being pick 9, 28 and Dean Gore. I know clearly not full value but also not "free".
-Acquired Scott Selwood and Luke Dahlhaus both as free agents, which seems like the mid tier players finding new clubs as we are all fine with.
-Lost Motlop to free agency and used the compo pick on Ablett, effectively trading the two.
-Now have Jeremy Cameron nominating them, but he is a restricted free agent, which means GWS will match and they'll probably end up trading two first rounders for him.

So whilst they have been involved with a bunch of free agents, and high profile ones at that, their two biggest recruits through the system (Dangerfield and Cameron) were hardly free, and their biggest loss (Ablett, whose departure surely cost them at least one flag seeing as he was clearly the best player in the comp) gave them not very much in compensation which was offset somewhat when he returned for free after his prime.

Also


Would this actually make a difference in the Cameron example? If you play it out:
-Cameron is out of contract and a free agent for effectively everyone except Geelong (and Richmond, Port and Brisbane).
-Geelong still make an offer to him, of whatever they are currently offering, and he accepts as he is after all out of contract.
-As Cameron is not a free agent available to Geelong, they are forced to trade for him, which is exactly the same scenario they are facing now as GWS will match their offer.

It's not a bad idea nd would certainly be very helpful in the Lynch example, but where the player is a RFA I think it makes zero difference unless the other club gets an amazing draft pick from the compensation scheme, which is another matter entirely.

All good points Soupaman. Appreciate your thoughts.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: 2020 Player movement

This post is infuriatingly sensible Soupaman. Can't argue with any of it. AND they lost Kelly last year as well.

Still, somehow, deep down I feel 'triggered' by Lynch going to the Tigers, then Cameron going to the Cats.

Hmmmmmm..........

I am all for sticking the boot into Geelong however on the big free agency moves involving them they have:
-Lost Gary Ablett to what was effectively free agency, receiving a mid first round pick as compensation for possibly the best player of his generation if not ever.
-Acquired Patrick Dangerfield who was a free agent, but as Adelaide matched the offer still meant they had to find the trade capital to give back, which ended up being pick 9, 28 and Dean Gore. I know clearly not full value but also not "free".
-Acquired Scott Selwood and Luke Dahlhaus both as free agents, which seems like the mid tier players finding new clubs as we are all fine with.
-Lost Motlop to free agency and used the compo pick on Ablett, effectively trading the two.
-Now have Jeremy Cameron nominating them, but he is a restricted free agent, which means GWS will match and they'll probably end up trading two first rounders for him.

So whilst they have been involved with a bunch of free agents, and high profile ones at that, their two biggest recruits through the system (Dangerfield and Cameron) were hardly free, and their biggest loss (Ablett, whose departure surely cost them at least one flag seeing as he was clearly the best player in the comp) gave them not very much in compensation which was offset somewhat when he returned for free after his prime.

Also


Would this actually make a difference in the Cameron example? If you play it out:
-Cameron is out of contract and a free agent for effectively everyone except Geelong (and Richmond, Port and Brisbane).
-Geelong still make an offer to him, of whatever they are currently offering, and he accepts as he is after all out of contract.
-As Cameron is not a free agent available to Geelong, they are forced to trade for him, which is exactly the same scenario they are facing now as GWS will match their offer.

It's not a bad idea nd would certainly be very helpful in the Lynch example, but where the player is a RFA I think it makes zero difference unless the other club gets an amazing draft pick from the compensation scheme, which is another matter entirely.

[jeemak]

Re: 2020 Player movement

It doesn't mean that they're not entitled wankers though. You know, largely because they've been gifted a home ground advantage and huge/ clean gate receipts whilst at the same time bleating in the media that they should get to play at the MCG more - over and above other teams getting the chance to.

So I tend to look at these things on balance entirely and solely when it suits me to. And when it comes to Geelong, on balance, they have it better than just about any other team and I hate them for it.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2020 Player movement

Free agency has been a massive winner for the Cats if they gain Dangerfield and Cameron. They would go straight to number 1 beneficiaries.
Ablett wasn't free agency, and most clubs have lost high calibre players to the expansion clubs without adequate replacements. Ablett is huge though, but look at the pillaging of the Crows and there's a real smashing of a team.
Nobody nominates them, and they've got a palindromic beach! That's got to beat Moggs Creek.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: 2020 Player movement

Can any other team compete with a palindromic beach?

Free agency has been a massive winner for the Cats if they gain Dangerfield and Cameron. They would go straight to number 1 beneficiaries.
Ablett wasn't free agency, and most clubs have lost high calibre players to the expansion clubs without adequate replacements. Ablett is huge though, but look at the pillaging of the Crows and there's a real smashing of a team.
Nobody nominates them, and they've got a palindromic beach! That's got to beat Moggs Creek.

[soupman]

Re: 2020 Player movement

So I tend to look at these things on balance entirely and solely when it suits me to. And when it comes to Geelong, on balance, they have it better than just about any other team and I hate them for it.

Oh I am right with you. Aside from Essendon I'd say Geelong are comfortably my most hated club.

[ledge]

Re: 2020 Player movement

Oh I am right with you. Aside from Essendon I'd say Geelong are comfortably my most hated club.

We have done pretty well with father/sons though and even had to let some go to other clubs.

[jeemak]

Re: 2020 Player movement

We have done pretty well with father/sons though and even had to let some go to other clubs.

Yep, we're at least up to net -571 whereas Geelong are sitting pretty at net 322 by my estimates.

Don't forget what they got Tom Hawkins, Scarlett and Ablett for in the first place.

[ledge]

Re: 2020 Player movement

Yep, we're at least up to net -571 whereas Geelong are sitting pretty at net 322 by my estimates.

Don't forget what they got Tom Hawkins, Scarlett and Ablett for in the first place.

Some clubs have got bugger all which is amazing.
Yes us and Geelong have prospered under the rule in recent years with multiple ones.

[Happy Days]

Re: 2020 Player movement

So Crouch has apparently picked St Kilda (lucky them), meaning that they're likely out on Caldwell. Should we be asking the question here?

I know we're theoreticaly in XOH but Caldwell seems way better from what I've seen. Not sure how we get it done but that can be a problem for future us.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: 2020 Player movement

So Crouch has apparently picked St Kilda (lucky them), meaning that they're likely out on Caldwell. Should we be asking the question here?

I know we're theoreticaly in XOH but Caldwell seems way better from what I've seen. Not sure how we get it done but that can be a problem for future us.

I don't rate Crouch, but St Kilda have transformed themselves in a short space of time. Credit to them. Whether it gets them a flag is another thing but they've been aggressive in improving their list.

I hope to see the same for us, or else we'll be overtaken by clubs below us.

On Caldwell, I haven't seen a heap of him. Does he offer a POD to our current set-up, can he play forward?