‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

[Twodogs]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

Hi B-Tragician. Thanks for the view.

You mention those who have lived in poverty. We all know that poverty is a broad situation.

Can see American society is becoming polarized and fragmented by social media and news corporations plying this issue. ( Thanks Rupert )

Western Bulldogs take their colors from the Union Jack, as I understand it, as we do the British Bulldog. Are we going to change that too? If it really is invasion day, and a purge where one culture is held up above all others, go all the way. Let's become the Western Bullfrogs.

One authority gets to measure who has the most past-pain and force cultural sensitivities on people in a public court ( Caroline Wilson usually). But of course that authority is almost always not aboriginal are they? People need to be willing to sit down and sort these things out, and not let Corporate media and outrage positioning divide us. I've heard indigenous leaders give a similar view.

The colours come from the French flag. Around the time the locals were first starting a footy club, Louis-Napoléon, the Prince Imperial of France was killed fighting for the British in the Zulu wars. The early Footscray football club adopted the colours of the tricouloer in his honour. The club was also called the Prince Imperials for a while after.


In his recorded reminisces, Charlie Lovett provides an answer as to why the name

Prince Imperial was chosen and his memoirs provides the strongest link to the past.

According to Lovett, the club was:

named after the Prince Imperial of France, who was serving with the

British Army in Africa in the Zulu War and during a scouting expedition was

killed by the Zulus. His death caused a great shock to the British nation as he was

a very popular officer in the British Army and as brave as he was popular. Out of

respect to him we named the first football club the Prince Imperial.



From

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/40552/

Arthur, Darren (2019) Foundation Narratives in Rowing, Cricket and Australian Rules Football: Sport in Footscray 1859-1886. Research Master thesis, Victoria University

[Grantysghost]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

The colours come from the French flag. Around the time the locals were first starting a footy club, Louis-Napoléon, the Prince Imperial of France was killed fighting for the British in the Zulu wars. The early Footscray football club adopted the colours of the tricouloer in his honour. The club was also called the Prince Imperials for a while after.


In his recorded reminisces, Charlie Lovett provides an answer as to why the name

Prince Imperial was chosen and his memoirs provides the strongest link to the past.

According to Lovett, the club was:

named after the Prince Imperial of France, who was serving with the

British Army in Africa in the Zulu War and during a scouting expedition was

killed by the Zulus. His death caused a great shock to the British nation as he was

a very popular officer in the British Army and as brave as he was popular. Out of

respect to him we named the first football club the Prince Imperial.



From

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/40552/

Arthur, Darren (2019) Foundation Narratives in Rowing, Cricket and Australian Rules Football: Sport in Footscray 1859-1886. Research Master thesis, Victoria University

So our colours are for a French guy, helping the English invade and suppress an ancient native culture in Southern Africa?



We should've went with these.

His death caused a great shock to the British nation as he was

a very popular officer in the British Army and as brave as he was popular. Out of

respect to him we named the first football club the Prince Imperial.

Actually he was forced out of France as a young man after the Prussians defeated them in the Franco-Prussian war (1870); his family fleeing to England.

Caused issues but Queen Victoria vouched for him. He was the only heir to the throne, albeit a lame one as his father was removed from power following the war.

Against everyone's better advice he talked his way into going to Africa to see some action and whilst out sketching from a high point went down to a river to get some water despite scouts warning they were Zulu in the area.

They ended up being attacked and he fell trying to mount his horse in the scramble to escape and was set upon and killed.

Historically significant as it ended the Napoleonic line /empire however there were still Bonapartes around in France; just no one with enough status to be able to restore the dynasty.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

So our colours are for a French guy, helping the English invade and suppress an ancient native culture in Southern Africa?

Yikes..when you parse it like that.... Western Bullfrogs it is then.

[Twodogs]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

So our colours are for a French guy, helping the English invade and suppress an ancient native culture in Southern Africa?



We should've went with these.





Actually he was forced out of France as a young man after the Prussians defeated them in the Franco-Prussian war (1870); his family fleeing to England.

Caused issues but Queen Victoria vouched for him. He was the only heir to the throne, albeit a lame one as his father was removed from power following the war.

Against everyone's better advice he talked his way into going to Africa to see some action and whilst out sketching from a high point went down to a river to get some water despite scouts warning they were Zulu in the area.

They ended up being attacked and he fell trying to mount his horse in the scramble to escape and was set upon and killed.

Historically significant as it ended the Napoleonic line /empire however there were still Bonapartes around in France; just no one with enough status to be able to restore the dynasty.

Yeah I remember reading that he ignored advice from his company and it left him exposed to the sortie from the Zulu warriors.



The quote I've used is from Charlie Lovett (from Darren Arthur's thesis on the early history of sport in Footscray-i recommend reading it, it's fascinating) who was a vital figure in the early history of the club. He was the guy who got us into the VFA by going around the town and selling enough memberships for us to qualify for admission. Basically if it weren't for him doing that back in 188ty whatever (nobody can be definitively sure exactly what year it was. If there was one thing they were worse at than playing footy back then it was keeping records) there would be no Footscray or Western Bulldogs football club now.

[Grantysghost]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

Yeah I remember reading that he ignored advice from his company and it left him exposed to the sortie from the Zulu warriors.



The quote I've used is from Charlie Lovett (from Darren Arthur's thesis on the early history of sport in Footscray-i recommend reading it, it's fascinating) who was a vital figure in the early history of the club. He was the guy who got us into the VFA by going around the town and selling enough memberships for us to qualify for admission. Basically if it weren't for him doing that back in 188ty whatever (nobody can be definitively sure exactly what year it was. If there was one thing they were worse at than playing footy back then it was keeping records) there would be no Footscray or Western Bulldogs football club now.

I love history so this was right up my alley. Fascinating stuff. I never knew about the Prince Imperial, so now I realise why Prince Imperial uses the name Prince Imperial ! (say that sentence 3 times fast).

[Twodogs]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

I love history so this was right up my alley. Fascinating stuff. I never knew about the Prince Imperial, so now I realise why Prince Imperial uses the name Prince Imperial ! (say that sentence 3 times fast).

I knew that Belgravia and Prince Imperials and a few more junior clubs had combined to form the senior Footscray football club but I hadn't known about the St John's club that preceded them all until I read Arthur's thesis.


There's some great stories in his work.

[jeemak]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

So we all hate the Zulus now?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

So we all hate the Zulus now?

Yep.. that's the main takeaway.. nailed it as usual Jee..

[Grantysghost]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

So we all hate the Zulus now?

Ha - no comment.

This really went off thread in such a wonderful way.

Jeff would like the Zulus I assume with his proclivity for collecting African themed dolls. (back on thread).

[Twodogs]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

Ha - no comment.

This really went off thread in such a wonderful way.

Jeff would like the Zulus I assume with his proclivity for collecting African themed dolls. (back on thread).

It only took me one post and we were in Africa 150 years ago!

I've got a talent for this sort of thing...

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

The colours come from the French flag. Around the time the locals were first starting a footy club, Louis-Napoléon, the Prince Imperial of France was killed fighting for the British in the Zulu wars. The early Footscray football club adopted the colours of the tricouloer in his honour. The club was also called the Prince Imperials for a while after.


In his recorded reminisces, Charlie Lovett provides an answer as to why the name

Prince Imperial was chosen and his memoirs provides the strongest link to the past.

According to Lovett, the club was:

named after the Prince Imperial of France, who was serving with the

British Army in Africa in the Zulu War and during a scouting expedition was

killed by the Zulus. His death caused a great shock to the British nation as he was

a very popular officer in the British Army and as brave as he was popular. Out of

respect to him we named the first football club the Prince Imperial.



From

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/40552/

Arthur, Darren (2019) Foundation Narratives in Rowing, Cricket and Australian Rules Football: Sport in Footscray 1859-1886. Research Master thesis, Victoria University

Thanks for that TD, keeper of lore. Well the Bulldog is a pretty British Symbol, and Imperials and so forth. But you take my point.
The Age, again today, front page, and yet why is the picture is about Kennett?
Get Cyril's picture on there. Let him write his own story and let's hear indigenous stories.
But instead it keeps becoming about Jeff. Because it’s an election year! If it were any other president it would be a club culture issue. But now it is a Jeff issue.

I understand Cyril is upset about the treatment of his wife by Jeff. Someone said something in 2013.
But right now, what I see are people only eating because we are being donated food, and that's the situation for much of 26 million people.
Think about it. ( I’m fine, neighbors keep donating me food, I have about 30 eggs ) That's the entire population of Australia dependent on bags of random vegetables handed out by the government.
And if you take Africa, that's the situation for much of the world every day. What am I going to eat today?

" Australia is one of the most racist places in the world" - You mean, more racist than here? When in 2020, so many Africans in Guangzhou ( only Africans, not others, get it? ) were being kicked out of their accommodation onto the street, to the point African embassies had to intervene and protest. Drivers would turn around if they saw a foreigner had called them in Didi and I couldn't get anywhere for weeks. You mean, more racist than that?

"Something is racist if you feel it is". Well, good luck with that. You may never learn a foreign language, never enjoy living in another culture without being offended every other day.

How many weeks is this going to be front page news?
If Caroline Wilson wanted to be an elder statesmen then sponsor a media event where you bring them together.

Sure it's a story, Cyril doesn't want to go to Hawks parties. He is indigenious and we all regret the treatment of our Australians, ongoing incidents. And yet the story keeps going back to Jeff. Storm in a tea cup. Age politicization ( if it isn't show Cyril! it's about him)

The media always likes to hold aboriginal people at arms length as a way of controlling their narrative.
For this reason I’d rather Mangrook tell this story than Wilson. I'm sure they have something much more meaningful to contribute about actual football life. Anyway, other things to deal with now, like growing mushrooms in my apartment.

[jeemak]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

GD have you considered The Age might be running this as front page news in order to distract readers from the train wreck that is Scott Morrison and his government (internet search Friendlyjordies - The Prayer Room as another example of what's going on but isn't being reported) given they're already lagging in the poles, rather than it being a tenuous link to Kennett's ties with the Liberal party and putting negative press onto him to try and swing votes Labor's way?

Nine owns Fairfax now. The chair is Peter Costello. They don't and haven't done favours for the Labor party for a very very long time.

It would be great to hear from Cyril, but if he doesn't want to speak then that's his choice.

[hujsh]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

" Australia is one of the most racist places in the world" - You mean, more racist than here? When in 2020, so many Africans in Guangzhou ( only Africans, not others, get it? ) were being kicked out of their accommodation onto the street, to the point African embassies had to intervene and protest. Drivers would turn around if they saw a foreigner had called them in Didi and I couldn't get anywhere for weeks. You mean, more racist than that?

Is this from my comment? Because (as I took care to point out) the quote was about how comfortable we are with our racism, not how racist we are.

[EasternWest]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

GD you've lost the plot on this one mate.

Whataboutism manifest.

It's possible to care about multiple things at once.

Anyway, still love you mate. Hope you're keeping well and safe.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

GD have you considered The Age might be running this as front page news in order to distract readers from the train wreck that is Scott Morrison and his government (internet search Friendlyjordies - The Prayer Room as another example of what's going on but isn't being reported) given they're already lagging in the poles, rather than it being a tenuous link to Kennett's ties with the Liberal party and putting negative press onto him to try and swing votes Labor's way?

Nine owns Fairfax now. The chair is Peter Costello. They don't and haven't done favours for the Labor party for a very very long time.

It would be great to hear from Cyril, but if he doesn't want to speak then that's his choice.

Cut scene to Fairfax board room.
"Right guys coming up to election, we need maximum clicks."
Keen junior journalist " How about we really go after Jeff on this Rioli, the left leaning Victorians hate him, and he doesn't matter to us anymore".Good idea! ok great. We can get maximum outrage on this one, and keep our agenda bubbling along.

Have you ever noticed how the same company keeps different plates spinning in different states?
Same stories, different angles depending on how they want to tailor it to the audience.
It's all about clicks and then, working where it counts.

GD you've lost the plot on this one mate.

Whataboutism manifest.

It's possible to care about multiple things at once.

Anyway, still love you mate. Hope you're keeping well and safe.

Thanks ED / Hujsh. Yes I am ok.

The Australian spin media divides people and makes it harder to reconcile, not easier.
I haven't seen any points here that make me think otherwise.

Hujsh, I just disagree.
Australia has casual racism and it deserves to be called out, yes. I've been all over Australia too and seen it, heard it.
I've spent time trying to help Indian guys get jobs, as soon as people see their name they get ignored.
I've taught Afghans in Corio, and when they walk in the street people hurl abuse at them from car windows or throw frozen bread at them. I know intimately what you are talking about.

I've been around the world and lived years life abroad.
I can think of 10 countries that have worse casual racism, racism and racial hatred than Australia.
Western Bulldogs for example, a program to help Jewish and Muslim kids play footy together for mutual understanding.
Try doing that in several countries and you know which. Would never ever happen.

Anyway, that's my take and I said enough.