What is a balanced list?

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  • Grantysghost
    Bouncing Strong
    • Apr 2010
    • 18709

    What is a balanced list?

    I was responding to another post, and thought this needs a thread of it's own. Lots of talk around list balance, and talent v positional need and I thought : what does a balanced list actually look like these days?

    I think there is a school of thought that the Lions probably have the most balanced list in the league. I've tried to (very quickly) break them down by position from the GF. Is this the template we should be all striving for? Love to hear your thoughts, is this the perfect balance? Which ones did I stuff up (I had a few I was 50/50 where to place esp MF)

    Defenders

    2 x KPD - Andrews, Lester
    2 x MD - Starcevich, Gardiner (borderline KPD)
    3 x SD - Mckenna, Coleman, Wilmot


    Midfielders

    3 x Outside - Zorko, McCluggage, Fletcher
    4 x Inside - Neale, Berry, Dunkley, Robertson
    1 x Ruck - McInerney

    Forwards

    2 x KPF - Daniher, Hipwood
    4 x MF - Mcarthy, Rayner, Ah Chee, Bailey
    1 x SF - Cameron
    Last edited by Grantysghost; 27-02-2024, 05:03 PM.
    BT COME BACK!​
  • Axe Man
    Hall of Fame
    • Nov 2008
    • 10861

    #2
    Re: What is a balanced list?

    Payne is missing who is a first choice KPD. Doedee will come into the side as third tall/medium defender at some stage too.

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    • Bornadog
      WOOF Clubhouse Leader
      • Jan 2007
      • 65574

      #3
      Re: What is a balanced list?

      The balance is a hard one to fathom and work out as it depends on the game plan. The mix of talls v smalls, mids versus forwards etc.

      If you are looking at a fast moving game, and want to also lock the ball into your forward 50, obviously an over abundance of talls (slow talls) won't work. So it is a hard question to answer.

      What I have seen of Brisbane is they move the ball slowly from the backline, playing a possession game, chipping the ball around and then when they see an opening, they will pounce and move the ball very quickly to the forward line.

      Pies, go hell for leather and move the ball very quickly from the backline to the forward line., They don't have many tall players, forward or back, so they adapt the game plan to suit the players.

      We need to balance out the players. How many talls is too many? How many mids is too many and can they play other roles?
      FFC: Established 1883

      Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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      • Grantysghost
        Bouncing Strong
        • Apr 2010
        • 18709

        #4
        Re: What is a balanced list?

        Originally posted by Axe Man
        Payne is missing who is a first choice KPD. Doedee will come into the side as third tall/medium defender at some stage too.
        Yeah this was from the GF side.

        It's more about the balance (what type is where).
        BT COME BACK!​

        Comment

        • Grantysghost
          Bouncing Strong
          • Apr 2010
          • 18709

          #5
          Re: What is a balanced list?

          Originally posted by bornadog
          The balance is a hard one to fathom and work out as it depends on the game plan. The mix of talls v smalls, mids versus forwards etc.

          If you are looking at a fast moving game, and want to also lock the ball into your forward 50, obviously an over abundance of talls (slow talls) won't work. So it is a hard question to answer.

          What I have seen of Brisbane is they move the ball slowly from the backline, playing a possession game, chipping the ball around and then when they see an opening, they will pounce and move the ball very quickly to the forward line.

          Pies, go hell for leather and move the ball very quickly from the backline to the forward line., They don't have many tall players, forward or back, so they adapt the game plan to suit the players.

          We need to balance out the players. How many talls is too many? How many mids is too many and can they play other roles?
          This is my thought too.

          However do you create a gameplan around the list, or vice versa?

          I think short term if you've just come in it's probably the former (see Bevo early doors). It's very interesting that Bevo's short term work was so affective v his longer term stuff as really this is HIS list now.
          BT COME BACK!​

          Comment

          • Bornadog
            WOOF Clubhouse Leader
            • Jan 2007
            • 65574

            #6
            Re: What is a balanced list?

            Originally posted by Grantysghost
            This is my thought too.

            However do you create a gameplan around the list, or vice versa?

            I think short term if you've just come in it's probably the former (see Bevo early doors). It's very interesting that Bevo's short term work was so affective v his longer term stuff as really this is HIS list now.
            Rocket changed his game plan once he worked out his players strengths.
            FFC: Established 1883

            Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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            • MrMahatma
              Coaching Staff
              • Sep 2007
              • 3958

              #7
              Re: What is a balanced list?

              Wouldn't a balanced list mean you have guys who are at their best in each and every role. So, genuine small crumbing forwards, genuine wingers, HBF, rucks etc. And you wouldn't want a super concentration of your "best" players, or highest paid, all in the one spot.

              I think we're kind of balanced in that we probably have guys on the list now (EG: we've drafted some positional needs Clark as a small forward, Freijah on the wing etc) but our "best 23" isn't balanced - cause those guys aren't in it (yet).

              Comment

              • GVGjr
                Moderator
                • Nov 2006
                • 43873

                #8
                Re: What is a balanced list?

                The ability to cover a wide range of injuries with players who have gained some senior football experience along the way is a sign that the list is at least reasonably balanced.
                Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

                Comment

                • Grantysghost
                  Bouncing Strong
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 18709

                  #9
                  Re: What is a balanced list?

                  Love all the answers.

                  I guess also what I'm wondering is what breakdown positionally do you see as the best balance?

                  Is it 2 small forwards? 3 medium defenders? Is there a template for the perfectly balanced list?
                  BT COME BACK!​

                  Comment

                  • FrediKanoute
                    Coaching Staff
                    • Aug 2007
                    • 3796

                    #10
                    Re: What is a balanced list?

                    Originally posted by Grantysghost
                    This is my thought too.

                    However do you create a gameplan around the list, or vice versa?

                    I think short term if you've just come in it's probably the former (see Bevo early doors). It's very interesting that Bevo's short term work was so affective v his longer term stuff as really this is HIS list now.
                    Gameplan first and then manage the list accordingly.

                    The difficulty is if you want to play 2020's footy with a 1970's list then maybe you need to compromise a little and evolve towards the list.

                    Comment

                    • Bulldog Joe
                      Premiership Moderator
                      • Jul 2009
                      • 5433

                      #11
                      Re: What is a balanced list?

                      Originally posted by FrediKanoute
                      Gameplan first and then manage the list accordingly.

                      The difficulty is if you want to play 2020's footy with a 1970's list then maybe you need to compromise a little and evolve towards the list.
                      Sorry Fredi but I have to disagree.

                      The list is what you have and can only be addressed at the end of each season and you might make some list changes to help play the way you prefer.

                      The gameplan should evolve from the start of pre-season and be designed around the list that is available.

                      We need to play to our strength to maximise our output.

                      List strength should be the BIGGEST influence on gameplan.
                      Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

                      Comment

                      • mjp
                        Bulldog Team of the Century
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 7239

                        #12
                        Re: What is a balanced list?

                        Originally posted by Grantysghost
                        Love all the answers.

                        I guess also what I'm wondering is what breakdown positionally do you see as the best balance?

                        Is it 2 small forwards? 3 medium defenders? Is there a template for the perfectly balanced list?
                        I think age profile, salary impact and contractual status would be pretty big drivers of a balanced list.
                        What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

                        Comment

                        • Grantysghost
                          Bouncing Strong
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 18709

                          #13
                          Re: What is a balanced list?

                          Originally posted by Bulldog Joe
                          Sorry Fredi but I have to disagree.

                          The list is what you have and can only be addressed at the end of each season and you might make some list changes to help play the way you prefer.

                          The gameplan should evolve from the start of pre-season and be designed around the list that is available.

                          We need to play to our strength to maximise our output.

                          List strength should be the BIGGEST influence on gameplan.
                          Does it change with tenure though BJ?

                          Eg new coach like Bevo - he's got no idea how long he's going to last for.

                          He wins a flag in his second year, probably making do with what he has, then the game changes and he can mould things to his perfect team. I think that's what happened with the rebuild not rebuild we went through before the 21 peak.

                          For all intents and purposes this is the team that Bevo has created. Is it lopsided on purpose?
                          BT COME BACK!​

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                          • Grantysghost
                            Bouncing Strong
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 18709

                            #14
                            Re: What is a balanced list?

                            Originally posted by mjp
                            I think age profile, salary impact and contractual status would be pretty big drivers of a balanced list.
                            So age having your best players in their prime age group 25-30...Salary impact not having a huge weight of the cash to a few, and contracts not having guys being distracted with contract issues.

                            Yep they'd be a huge part of it.

                            It's amazing when you start digging you realise how big a task it is to manage a list with only a few levers to pull every year.
                            BT COME BACK!​

                            Comment

                            • Grantysghost
                              Bouncing Strong
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 18709

                              #15
                              Re: What is a balanced list?

                              Originally posted by mjp
                              I think age profile, salary impact and contractual status would be pretty big drivers of a balanced list.
                              MJP do you have a template in your mind as to what the perfect list looks like in terms of filled positions?
                              BT COME BACK!​

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