Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

[Sedat]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

Agree. Racism is unfortunately alive & well including in Melbourne & Vic. It?s not as overt as it used to be but it?s there alright.

It's certainly alive and well in the media/political class, which is their modus operandi to amplify the dying embers of it to create as much artificial combustion in order for society to consume more of their shit content. You cannot hate the media/political class enough - there is no bigger enemy of the people in modern society IMO.

In everyday work/life, I haven't personally encountered it or seen it in well over 30 years, whereas in my first 20 years racism was a regular occurrence (both receiving it and observing it happening). I'm more than happy to be an island on this thread if most others believe that Australia is as bad a racist backwater as it was 40+ years ago. Sure seems to be a lot of widely disparate cultures and ethnicities who are continuing to strive to make Australia home today - quite the contrast to many non-western countries who have absolutely zero tolerance to immigration of any kind that is not "their own kind".

[Grantysghost]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

It's certainly alive and well in the media/political class, which is their modus operandi to amplify the dying embers of it to create as much artificial combustion in order for society to consume more of their shit content. You cannot hate the media/political class enough - there is no bigger enemy of the people in modern society IMO.

In everyday work/life, I haven't personally encountered it or seen it in well over 30 years, whereas in my first 20 years racism was a near daily occurrence (both receiving it and observing it happening). I'm more than happy to be an island on this thread if most others believe that Australia is as bad a racist backwater as it was 40+ years ago. Sure seems to be a lot of widely disparate cultures and ethnicities who are continuing to strive to make Australia home today - quite the contrast to many non-western countries who have absolutely zero tolerance to immigration of any kind that is not "their own kind".

You make some very interesting points.

I only question whether it's been forced underground rather than massively reduced? Usually if that's the case you will see extreme fringe groups bubbling up and there haven't been too many (a few crazy Nazis).

I too haven't seen or heard anything for many years personally and I live in a very multicultural suburb. It's just the norm for me to see and engage with all of the wonderful cultures we have here in Melbourne daily (especially in the westside the bestside).

[Bornadog]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

It's certainly alive and well in the media/political class, which is their modus operandi to amplify the dying embers of it to create as much artificial combustion in order for society to consume more of their shit content. You cannot hate the media/political class enough - there is no bigger enemy of the people in modern society IMO.

In everyday work/life, I haven't personally encountered it or seen it in well over 30 years, whereas in my first 20 years racism was a regular occurrence (both receiving it and observing it happening). I'm more than happy to be an island on this thread if most others believe that Australia is as bad a racist backwater as it was 40+ years ago. Sure seems to be a lot of widely disparate cultures and ethnicities who are continuing to strive to make Australia home today - quite the contrast to many non-western countries who have absolutely zero tolerance to immigration of any kind that is not "their own kind".

You make some very interesting points.

I only question whether it's been forced underground rather than massively reduced? Usually if that's the case you will see extreme fringe groups bubbling up and there haven't been too many (a few crazy Nazis).

I too haven't seen or heard anything for many years personally and I live in a very multicultural suburb. It's just the norm for me to see and engage with all of the wonderful cultures we have here in Melbourne daily (especially in the westside the bestside).

I agree with all the points made by Sedat and yourself GG, but I fear the groups copping it at the moment are people of African Decent, but fear Indigenous people still cop it a bit as well. I think it is a bit underground, but it does exist.

[hujsh]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

I agree with all the points made by Sedat and yourself GG, but I fear the groups copping it at the moment are people of African Decent, but fear Indigenous people still cop it a bit as well. I think it is a bit underground, but it does exist.

I don't think it's underground, look at the youth incarceration rates for Indigenous kids. I always remember my cousin, could have gone to jail for arson or robbery, got off with community service (didn't even do it) but now has a decent job and family. Doubt he'd have got off (twice) if he didn't come from the background he did, with all that entails. Didn't end up doing any harm afterwards either. Not sure those Indigenous kids are getting the same chances he did.

[jeemak]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

Sorry hujsh, but I disagree completely with this assertion as well. What is 'whiteness' anyway? Is it a state of mind, or are we actually supposed to be judging everyone/everything based on colour only? If you have a predilection for yacht rock and popped Polo Ralph Lauren collars, does that make you 'white' regardless of your skin colour? What hue is considered acceptable whiteness/privilege, and what shade automatically puts you in the victim basket? I find the whole revisionist approach to redefining racism very distasteful and disingenuous. The reality is that in human history, all races and religions have been both victims and perpetrators at some point in time. Applying previous historical standards to today completely misses the point of evolution, learning and understanding. To me personally, it is utterly pointless to do so.

How dare you put these two things together and imply an association, you animal.*

*Try and guess if it's yacht rock or polos I like....

[jeemak]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

It's certainly alive and well in the media/political class, which is their modus operandi to amplify the dying embers of it to create as much artificial combustion in order for society to consume more of their shit content. You cannot hate the media/political class enough - there is no bigger enemy of the people in modern society IMO.

In everyday work/life, I haven't personally encountered it or seen it in well over 30 years, whereas in my first 20 years racism was a regular occurrence (both receiving it and observing it happening). I'm more than happy to be an island on this thread if most others believe that Australia is as bad a racist backwater as it was 40+ years ago. Sure seems to be a lot of widely disparate cultures and ethnicities who are continuing to strive to make Australia home today - quite the contrast to many non-western countries who have absolutely zero tolerance to immigration of any kind that is not "their own kind".

I don't know where you've been looking mate but I can assure you in the factories and despatch areas of manufacturing/ supply chain Australia it is very much alive and well.

It's just that whoever it was on the end of it previously are now joining in with the traditional racists and piling onto the newcomers.

[Sedat]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

*Try and guess if it's yacht rock or polos I like....

Like me, I suspect you have Robbie Dupree and Player in your Spotify playlist

[Sedat]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

I don't know where you've been looking mate but I can assure you in the factories and despatch areas of manufacturing/ supply chain Australia it is very much alive and well.

I can only go by my lived experience in my industry of work and in my daily community interactions the last 25 odd years - there has been virtually no racism (or homophobia or sexism either) in that time. It just isn't a thing and hasn't been for a generation, which is in stark contrast to my primary and high school years as the child of European migrants in an Anglo Saxon dominated country town. Funnily enough, I still love my childhood and have nothing but fond memories - my perspective only, but focusing on negative events that took place so long ago is a waste of energy and doesn't actually achieve anything. As I said previously, I wish these players luck in their class action - if they feel this course of action is necessary to make their lives better, go for it.

It's just that whoever it was on the end of it previously are now joining in with the traditional racists and piling onto the newcomers.

Hmm, not sure about this Jee. Perhaps those European/Middle Eastern communities that fled violent and unsafe environments post WW2, and SE Asian communities that fled the violence and chaos in Vietnam/Cambodia in the 1970's, have a deep sense of gratitude and respect for their adopted homeland that brought them in and gave them the opportunity for a better life for their families, despite the racism they were subjected to when they arrived. A safe, prosperous and peaceful country to raise a family is something that should never be taken for granted, which is all anybody really wants in the end.

Stupid/corrupt politicians (aided by their media mouthpieces) that endeavour to make this country less safe, less prosperous, less peaceful and more divided (for the citizens they are duty-bound to represent the best interests of) with their idiotic decisions and taxpayer largesse are the real enemy.

[hujsh]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

I can only go by my lived experience in my industry of work and in my daily community interactions the last 25 odd years - there has been virtually no racism (or homophobia or sexism either) in that time. It just isn't a thing and hasn't been for a generation, which is in stark contrast to my primary and high school years as the child of European migrants in an Anglo Saxon dominated country town. Funnily enough, I still love my childhood and have nothing but fond memories - my perspective only, but focusing on negative events that took place so long ago is a waste of energy and doesn't actually achieve anything. As I said previously, I wish these players luck in their class action - if they feel this course of action is necessary to make their lives better, go for it.


Hmm, not sure about this Jee. Perhaps those European/Middle Eastern communities that fled violent and unsafe environments post WW2, and SE Asian communities that fled the violence and chaos in Vietnam/Cambodia in the 1970's, have a deep sense of gratitude and respect for their adopted homeland that brought them in and gave them the opportunity for a better life for their families, despite the racism they were subjected to when they arrived. A safe, prosperous and peaceful country to raise a family is something that should never be taken for granted, which is all anybody really wants in the end.

Stupid/corrupt politicians (aided by their media mouthpieces) that endeavour to make this country less safe, less prosperous, less peaceful and more divided (for the citizens they are duty-bound to represent the best interests of) with their idiotic decisions and taxpayer largesse are the real enemy.

You can see how that might be a blind spot right?

[Sedat]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

You can see how that might be a blind spot right?

Work environments obviously differ, but daily community interactions a blind spot? Racism was everywhere and unchecked in common daily life in the 70/80's and it has been virtually eliminated the last 25 odd years - it is so jarring to hear it now that it is immediately called out. Going to the footy this century is a completely different experience to past eras. I can tell you the crowd environment was vastly different 30-40 years ago. The indigenous racism at the footy and in the crowds virtually stopped after Long and Winmar made their stands - of course there are examples that have occurred since then (eg: Goodes, Betts, JUH) but this crap was everywhere, every week and at every ground 40 years ago.

When you consider the massive increase in amplification of everything since the advent of social media, even with this amplification racism is nowhere near the level of 40+ years ago IMO. It has reduced to the extent that the definitions have been changed to suit a preconceived narrative (with the thinly disguised intention of continuing to divide us all into tribes), hence the political/media class create terms like casual racism and other monikers to redefine a problem that was largely under control.

You are free to hold your belief that Australia is still as racist as it was 40 years ago. I respectfully disagree and I suspect I'm in the minority on here. That's cool.

[hujsh]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

Work environments obviously differ, but daily community interactions a blind spot? Racism was everywhere and unchecked in common daily life in the 70/80's and it has been virtually eliminated the last 25 odd years - it is so jarring to hear it now that it is immediately called out. Going to the footy this century is a completely different experience to past eras. I can tell you the crowd environment was vastly different 30-40 years ago. The indigenous racism at the footy and in the crowds virtually stopped after Long and Winmar made their stands - of course there are examples that have occurred since then (eg: Goodes, Betts, JUH) but this crap was everywhere, every week and at every ground 40 years ago.

When you consider the massive increase in amplification of everything since the advent of social media, even with this amplification racism is nowhere near the level of 40+ years ago IMO. It has reduced to the extent that the definitions have been changed to suit a preconceived narrative (with the thinly disguised intention of continuing to divide us all into tribes), hence the political/media class create terms like casual racism and other monikers to redefine a problem that was largely under control.

You are free to hold your belief that Australia is still as racist as it was 40 years ago. I respectfully disagree and I suspect I'm in the minority on here. That's cool.

That's always been your strawman Sedat. Most others are just saying it's not a non-issue merely because it's less visible or less prevalent now.

And yes, you in your daily community interactions as a white passing straight guy are far less likely to both encounter and notice racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Relying only on your personal experience doesn't really cut it as disproving something like this. You can believe it, but it's not super convincing as evidence.

[Bornadog]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

You are free to hold your belief that Australia is still as racist as it was 40 years ago. I respectfully disagree and I suspect I'm in the minority on here. That's cool.

definitely people are more tolerant than they were 40 years ago - Australia has matured. Racism now is less prevalent than it was and those exhibiting racism tend to be the uneducated bogans.

My father who came to Australia in 1950, said he and his friends copped it a bit. He recalls going to matches in the 60s and Georgie Bissett being called a wog and all sorts of names. It was also rife in the 70s, 80s.

Happy that eventually AFL came down on this sort of behaviour, in fact read an article yesterday that 16 people received a life ban from AFL for being racists in 2023.

NRL player got 8 weeks only this week.

What sort of penalty should AFL players receive, given supporters can get a life ban?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

Racism definitely still exists in Australia. It's just not as obvious as its no longer socially acceptable as it must have been previously. I wasn't around in the 70s or 80s to know what it was like but I've heard and read enough to get an idea.
I dealt with some as a kid growing up in the 90s and I would say a lot of it these days is more the "ignorant" kind rather than flat out abusive racism. A lot of the more "quiet" racism is from the older generations. I certainly haven't seen as much from the younger ones.

I know for sure that homophobia today is nowhere near the levels it was when I was in high school even in the 00s. Certain terms were used to insult anyone that are no longer acceptable/common. Just listen to some Eminem lyrics from songs that were hits. He'd be outcast today for such words.

Things have definitely changed for the better but 100% racism still exists. It's just expressed differently.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

That's always been your strawman Sedat. Most others are just saying it's not a non-issue merely because it's less visible or less prevalent now.

And yes, you in your daily community interactions as a white passing straight guy are far less likely to both encounter and notice racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Relying only on your personal experience doesn't really cut it as disproving something like this. You can believe it, but it's not super convincing as evidence.

Oh yeah. If you're white you won't run into nearly as many racist encounters in the wild as you would if you were dark skinned, chinese or an Indian wearing a Sari or a Muslim wearing a hijab for example.

[Sedat]

Re: Racism - Vilification Class Action Against AFL/ VFL

And yes, you in your daily community interactions as a white passing straight guy are far less likely to both encounter and notice racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Relying only on your personal experience doesn't really cut it as disproving something like this. You can believe it, but it's not super convincing as evidence.

I'm not quite as colour-obsessed as you appear to be. If I was, I would smile wryly to myself at the fact that I am a few shades darker than some high-profile govt-funded inner-city indigenous-identifying activists/politicians/celebrities, who somehow cannot seem to make $34 billion in annual taxpayer funding have any material impact whatsoever on bridging the gap for those remote indigenous communities that desperately need it, and yet these same activists/politicians/celebrities all seem to have incredibly lucrative personal property and investment portfolios and all live in exclusive communities and neighbourhoods that are decidedly lacking in multi-culturalism.

Not to mention there have been more than 1 million new arrivals into Australia in the last 18 months alone, from all manner of different religious backgrounds and ethnicities. Amazing that they would knowingly choose to come to such a hostile and racist country (although its not so amazing when the immigration intake of other countries is zero).

I wish everybody involved in this class action well and that they get what they need to put these historical grievances to bed. I'd much rather they get some cash/closure than the afore-mentioned activist grifters and charlatans.