Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

[mjp]

Question for the Stat heads.

Last week vs Essendon, Riley Bonner had (I believe) a record number of turnover possessions. 19.

Think about that. 17 of his possessions ended up in oppo hands. Now - they weren't all direct to the oppo (kick to a pack, oppo win that contest etc) but AFLTables have him listed with 19 Clangers.

He also had > 1000m gained.

Impactful or not impactful.

I would prefer people who watched the game don't comment...I just want to know what you think purely based on those simple numbers.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Question for the Stat heads.

Last week vs Essendon, Riley Bonner had (I believe) a record number of turnover possessions. 19.

Think about that. 17 of his possessions ended up in oppo hands. Now - they weren't all direct to the oppo (kick to a pack, oppo win that contest etc) but AFLTables have him listed with 19 Clangers.

He also had > 1000m gained.

Impactful or not impactful.

I would prefer people who watched the game don't comment...I just want to know what you think purely based on those simple numbers.

Sounds like JJs norm smith medal game.

To me the good offsets the bad and vice versa.

With that said, I didn't know kicking to a pack that resulted in a turnover was considered a clanger. That's very harsh.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

As I watched the game I will recuse myself.

[GVGjr]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

We will know more on how the club see's it around 5pm as he's been named on an extended bench.

It's both impactful and poor form but I'd lean to the latter given the team lost.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Question: how is metres gained measured? If you kick it straight to the oppo does it count towards metres gained? What about kicking it to a contest?

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

This is why stats are over-rated.

To really comment you need to watch the game.

Where the turnovers completely due to him or was he left with no option but to kick to a pack etc.

Circumstance is actually important. A player under pressure who kicks the ball 50 metres away from the goal he is defending probably gives his team a chance to reset, but a missed transition to a clear team-mate that goes to an opponent leading to opposition score is a different scenario.

[azabob]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Metres Gained: Net metres gained with the ball by a player, by running, kicking or handballing, combining measures towards attacking goal and away from defensive goal.

Metres Gained (Effective): Total metres gained by a player or a team from effective disposals.

Metres Gained (Assisted): Total metres gained by a teammate that receives an uncontested possession from your disposal

Clanger: An error made by a player resulting in a negative result for his side. Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition. Frees and 50-metre penalties against, No Pressure Errors, Dropped Marks and Debits are all included in clangers.

https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/

[Bornadog]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Metres Gained: Net metres gained with the ball by a player, by running, kicking or handballing, combining measures towards attacking goal and away from defensive goal.

Metres Gained (Effective): Total metres gained by a player or a team from effective disposals.

Metres Gained (Assisted): Total metres gained by a teammate that receives an uncontested possession from your disposal

Clanger: An error made by a player resulting in a negative result for his side. Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition. Frees and 50-metre penalties against, No Pressure Errors, Dropped Marks and Debits are all included in clangers.

https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/

You forgot to add:

Turnover: Losing possession to the opposition in general play. General play excludes events that happen between a stoppage and the clearance.

[hujsh]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Question for the Stat heads.

Last week vs Essendon, Riley Bonner had (I believe) a record number of turnover possessions. 19.

Think about that. 17 of his possessions ended up in oppo hands. Now - they weren't all direct to the oppo (kick to a pack, oppo win that contest etc) but AFLTables have him listed with 19 Clangers.

He also had > 1000m gained.

Impactful or not impactful.

I would prefer people who watched the game don't comment...I just want to know what you think purely based on those simple numbers.

Scores from turnovers is pretty much the main avenue to goal now. If you're aimlessly bombing it down the line for an intercept posession you're probably doing a lot to start their scoring chains. There are usually other options (buy space, work the ball around, go back to go forward) so while you might excuse it a few times a game, 19 is too many.

That's my best go at context-less judgement.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Does the answer require having insight into each circumstance he was in when disposing of the ball, as well as where he turned it over and the outcome of those turnovers?

Maybe each of his disposals were earned under extreme pressure, in a specific role and he was mainly instructed that in worst case scenario its okay to turn ball over in this section of the ground, as we should in theory have protection via the way our game plan positions players.

I mean some turnovers are instant kills...ala in the middle against flow, etc, but others like toward a boundary often can be coralled, and maybe they result more teams being able to stabilise their defensive positioning around such a turnover?

I have no idea, I'm just trying to engage in the interesting topic posed by Mike. Great thread idea.

[mjp]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Circumstance is actually important.

OK. You know I 100% agree with all of what you wrote and this in particular...

But I would love you to put all this sensible stuff that muddies the waters aside for a second.

19 Clangers.
1000+ metres gained.

Same player.
Same game.

Good or Bad??
Gut feel.

Would it help if I told you the 2x main stats for determining the winner of a game in 2024 (so far) have been:

1/. Number of EFFECTIVE kicks.
2/. Total metres gained.

It's a very interesting stat line and one I have never seen before.

[Happy Days]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

If I hadn’t seen the game I would’ve assumed it was one of those Brendan McCartney specials where the player in question kicked it to Michael Johnson 1000 times. So I’m gonna say bad game.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Bad game.

Would be interesting to see a metres gained with possession retained stat, because that's what matters.

He registered a player rating of 4.4 which was the 5th lowest for the Saints.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Good game. It's all about territory.

Get it in, keep it in.

That's why it's a team game.

[mjp]

Re: Good Game or Bad Game: Riley Bonner vs Essendon

Bad game.

Would be interesting to see a metres gained with possession retained stat, because that's what matters.

He registered a player rating of 4.4 which was the 5th lowest for the Saints.

AHA. So...player ratings are important?

Do player ratings include metres gained?