The 2010 Collingwood season

[Mofra]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

I think they are a genuine threat. Their pacier players tend to be outside types, and their gameplan is very different to other sides in that they almost try to hug the boundary when they move the ball, which probably helps them switch the ball as the fat side gets fatter. Footspeed isn't a huge issue when you move the ball fast enough by possession - I don't think Geelong or ourseleves are as fast as people say, we just move it well.

[alwaysadog]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

I think they are a genuine threat. Their pacier players tend to be outside types, and their gameplan is very different to other sides in that they almost try to hug the boundary when they move the ball, which probably helps them switch the ball as the fat side gets fatter. Footspeed isn't a huge issue when you move the ball fast enough by possession - I don't think Geelong or ourseleves are as fast as people say, we just move it well.

You've got some very bad habits Moffra; first amongst them is that you think logically and in a context where hype has replaced substance you don't get carried away by the bullshit.

If you're not careful you'll become public enemy No.1, because you're not in love with the sound of your own voice and for you evidence seems to outweigh emotion.

On the other hand maybe logical thinking will make a comeback, but I’m not holding my breath. It’s been tried before but never actually succeeded in this context.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

I know Mofra he is in love with himself

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

As mentioned, Collingwood have been able to plug there major weakness with the inclusion of Jolly and therefore you would think they would have to improve.

But something has got to give. I can't see Geelong and St. Kilda sliding too much, but the Dogs, Brisbane and Adelaide all join Collingwood as teams that you would think will improve on last year.

Adelaide in particular showed in the first half of thier Semi with Collingwood just how good they are going to be and then reminded us in the second half just how young a lot of their important players are. Players like Dangerfield and Tippet will become scary propositions this year.

I don't think any one team will bolt away at the top this year and the top four battle will be insane. Can't wait.

[mjp]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

But something has got to give. I can't see Geelong and St. Kilda sliding too much, but the Dogs, Brisbane and Adelaide all join Collingwood as teams that you would think will improve on last year.

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

So if they finish top 4, and we do, and Geelong, and Adelaide, and St Kilda...and Collingwood...not everyone can improve.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

So if they finish top 4, and we do, and Geelong, and Adelaide, and St Kilda...and Collingwood...not everyone can improve.

Yep.

I think the competition will be as even as we've seen it though. I predict a decline for both Geelong and St. Kilda, but they'll still be tough to beat. Plenty of holes in Collingwood and Hawthorn's lists whilst Adelaide still rely a fair bit on the likes of Edwards, Stevens and McLeod - none of them getting younger. The same could be said for our forward half, so it makes 2010 an interesting season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

The Hawks will need to have found some serious running power to break into the top 4 - they were very light on for guys who could run, carry the footy in 09. Regardless of the brilliance of Roughy and Buddy they desperately need runners. Burgoyne could make an enormous difference as at his best he is Cooneyesque.

Jolly is a huge recruit for the Pies. Minson smashing them in the 06 Finals must have finally sunk in. I expect they will be thereabouts again, after all their non-travelling draw almost gifts them a top 4 spot, so somewhere between 4-8.

However, there is something flaky/mentally fragile about the key players they are really pinning their hopes to: Cloke, Thomas, Davis, Medhurst. For them to really become contenders don't they need a bit more midfield explosiveness/brilliance?

[Mantis]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

Jolly is a huge recruit for the Pies. Minson smashing them in the 06 Finals must have finally sunk in. I expect they will be thereabouts again, after all their non-travelling draw almost gifts them a top 4 spot, so somewhere between 4-8.

However, there is something flaky/mentally fragile about the key players they are really pinning their hopes to: Cloke, Thomas, Davis, Medhurst. For them to really become contenders don't they need a bit more midfield explosiveness/brilliance?

Agree with the Jolly call, he is a very good player and will give them a harder edge in the ruck.

In reference to your last question I agree that this is probably the major knock on them. The recruitment of Ball is a strange call, sure he is a hard nut, but he is limited in terms of his pace, endurance and kicking ability and at best he is an upgrade of O'Bree. Their 'brilliant' players are all inconsistent and I can't see that changing any time soon and this is a problem that they should have tried to rectify at the trade table, but I guess not all clubs want to trade with Collingwood.

Personally I am not all that concerend with them and think that after we successfully derailed their game plan in rd 22 that we will have their measure this year.... I guess by playing them twice in the first 10 rounds we will know if this is the case soon enough.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

In reference to your last question I agree that this is probably the major knock on them. The recruitment of Ball is a strange call, sure he is a hard nut, but he is limited in terms of his pace, endurance and kicking ability and at best he is an upgrade of O'Bree.

Their 'brilliant' players are all inconsistent and I can't see that changing any time soon and this is a problem that they should have tried to rectify at the trade table, but I guess not all clubs want to trade with Collingwood.

Personally I am not all that concerend with them and think that after we successfully derailed their game plan in rd 22 that we will have their measure this year.... I guess by playing them twice in the first 10 rounds we will know if this is the case soon enough.

You've hit the OBree nail on the head. I guess they didn't give up much to get a slightly younger version of OBree, who clearly has a place in their game plan, but I likewise dont think it adds anything to their major weakness.

Clearly a Hudson a Minson ruck team wont be able to dominate Jolly in the same way they have dominated the Pies previously though.

Personally I think in Griffen, Higgins, Ward, Hill etc we have better young players who are both more likely to become the dynamic midfielders of tomorrow and more likely to become consistent contributors.

I'd like to knock them over twice in 2010 - that 1 point loss was a disappointing night out at the dome in 2009

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

And I keep hearing that Hawthorn will bounce back.

So if they finish top 4, and we do, and Geelong, and Adelaide, and St Kilda...and Collingwood...not everyone can improve.

Is improvement just about finishing higher up the tree when it comes to regular season? There is a possibility that Adelaide, Bulldogs, Collingwood and Brisbane all play better and more consistent footy and win more games but actually finish the regular season in the same spot or even lower.

I suspect there will be a small improvement from these teams and the Saints and Geelong will come back to the pack, making for a ridculous arm wrestle for a top four spot. The AFL may have a nightmare on their hands trying to schedule round 22.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

Does anyone else get the feeling that the biggest improvement will come from the teams that weren't top six last year? I have a feeling that whilst still low on the ladder come seasons end, Melbourne for example will take more scalps and be much more competitive.

I think that West Coast, Port Adelaide and Hawthorn will be the biggest improvers and be 12 or so points better off come seasons end

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

Does anyone else get the feeling that the biggest improvement will come from the teams that weren't top six last year? I have a feeling that whilst still low on the ladder come seasons end, Melbourne for example will take more scalps and be much more competitive.

I think that West Coast, Port Adelaide and Hawthorn will be the biggest improvers and be 12 or so points better off come seasons end

I think the competition as a whole should improve but there's always going to be 2-3 sides that will fall away badly after mid season.

I think North Melbourne might climb a few spots.

[mjp]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

Is improvement just about finishing higher up the tree when it comes to regular season?

When it comes to the top end, YES. There are no 'moral victories' for premiership aspirants.

[mighty_west]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

Collingwood = care factor zero!

That said, i believe they'll still be around the mark, Jolly is a massive inclusion for them, top 4 for mine.

I also think Luke Ball will also be a very good inclusion, perhaps they can transform him into a tagger, he doesn't have the pace, but i don't believe you need to if you have the smarts, i also think they should try Cloke down back, no dramas with his reading of the play, he kicks like a mule just about every second shot for goal, bit of a liability i believe up forward.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: The 2010 Collingwood season

When it comes to the top end, YES. There are no 'moral victories' for premiership aspirants.

I didn't mean in a 'moral victory' sort of way, but I think there is certainly the possibility that a team improves but ends up finishing in the same place or lower. I think you are talking more about being able to call the year 'successful'. If we were to finish third again I would agree that we could not call the year more successful even if we take 3 or 4 more wins away from the minor rounds, but you could argue that the team have improved depending on the style of footy they play and the results.

The difference between a premiership can be as little as a bit of luck, a fleeting decision, an amazing/horrible passage of play or an 'off' quarter. I would argue that the '08 Geelong team improved on the '07 team and if the two teams played each other 100 times the '08 model would come out way on top.