Collingwood

[Bornadog]

No matter if you hate them or not, they are a club with amazing success over 100 years of football and their club culture and their ability to give something to their fans is to be admired. 40 grandfinals and 15 flags says it all. At the start of the season Collingwoods goal was to win the premiership, not make the GF but go all the way.

Something has to be done at the kennel to take us to the next level, I don't know what it is, but I am sick and tired of not getting to a grand final let alone winning one.

Is it our culture?

Is it the coaching staff we choose?

Is it the type of players we recruit?

Do we have a loser mentality, a mentality that says IF
- if Libba had of kicked that goal,
- If we had our best players in,
- If another club had of beaten such and such and we made it to 2nd or 1st spot,
- If the umpire had of paid that free. etc etc

We need to soul search this summer and break the drought, because I am sick of watching other teams in the GF.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Collingwood

Sadly, I agree with pretty much all of that. Not totally sure of the answer, to be honest. I think a lot is above the shoulders, with our lack of premiership success hanging over us. I honestly thought they could go on after the Who Cares Cup, but it seemed a different team come Round 1. Fresh injection of players via Trade Week might give them a spur.

I feel a review a la Geelong 2006 coming on.

[GVGjr]

Re: Collingwood

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

[mighty_west]

Re: Collingwood

No matter if you hate them or not, they are a club with amazing success over 100 years of football and their club culture and their ability to give something to their fans is to be admired. 40 grandfinals and 15 flags says it all. At the start of the season Collingwoods goal was to win the premiership, not make the GF but go all the way.

Something has to be done at the kennel to take us to the next level, I don't know what it is, but I am sick and tired of not getting to a grand final let alone winning one.

Is it our culture?

Is it the coaching staff we choose?

Is it the type of players we recruit?

Do we have a loser mentality, a mentality that says IF
- if Libba had of kicked that goal,
- If we had our best players in,
- If another club had of beaten such and such and we made it to 2nd or 1st spot,
- If the umpire had of paid that free. etc etc

We need to soul search this summer and break the drought, because I am sick of watching other teams in the GF.

One of my pet hates is hearing supporters say lets hope we get to a Grand Final, bugger that, lets hope we win Premierships, i would HATE to go through what the Saints have the past 2 years, all they did was progress one week further than what we did, yet they failed both years, we just have to have a ruthless mindset, and never accept second best.

We were at least an equal of Collingwood last year, possibly just ahead of them, yet they are 2010 Premiers, and we are no further than the last 2 years before, and that stinks.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Collingwood

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

Not sure anyone could get defensive, they're all sound, valid points.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Collingwood

Add
The draw - hardily ever have to travel, rarely not playing at the G, and hog most of the blockbuster days which builds membership and the club.

Favourable coverage - The media's darling, 'sells papers'. Pushes the brand like no other.

Hardly our fault as a football club that the majority of the melbourne people with IQs less than 50 support Colingwood

[Topdog]

Re: Collingwood

Pies had one of the toughest draws going this year and travelled 4 times Chops. Not a valid argument this year.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Collingwood

Pies had one of the toughest draws going this year and travelled 4 times Chops. Not a valid argument this year.

How was it tough? Play Carlton Richmond Essendon twice. Which club travels less than collingwood.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Collingwood

I'll focus on a few other learning's that we can take away from Collingwood.

Trading - Look at the way Collingwood added much needed experience in Jolly and Brown and weren't scared to cough up drafts picks.

Team selection - Collingwood weren't afraid to make the hard call on Fraser, Presti and even Leon Davis whereas as we couldn't pull the trigger on Hahn or Eagleton.
The Pies clearly appreciate and reward consistent performers even if the player isn't a star.

Recruitment and development - I want Everitt to have a look at Nathan Brown and Ben Reid who both got picked very close to him in the draft. Neither of them are stars but they are prepared to work hard and play a role.
Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
Eade and his coaching team would do well have a look at the way Malthouse can reinvent players and define the role that he wants them to perform.

Identifying multi positional players - Malthouse pulled off a coup when he decided to back in Jolly with support from Brown. It worked out very well for them.

Handling distractions - We clearly struggled with the Akermanis antics whereas the Pies easily defended the constant focus on the whole Buckley/Malthouse changeover questions.

Club President - Big Ed doesn't get led around by the AFL on issues that he believes are important to his club like clash jumpers etc.

I don't want people to get defensive on these points but I thought the Pies were very professional during the season and there must be some lessons we can learn from that.

Top post, agree 100%.

[EasternWest]

Re: Collingwood

Addison you need to have a look at what a limited player Toovey offers the Pies. He's not great but there is a consistency of performance that the coach can use.
that.

Top post, agree 100%.

Wow. That is spectacularly unfair on Addison. His intent is unquestionable and his improvement continues at pace. I agree with most of what you say, but I think it's incorrect to point the finger at a guy like Dylan, who would know exactly where he fits in the pecking order.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Collingwood

Let's not forget.

Easily the biggest supporter base just ready to be tapped. This gives them an undeniable advantage when it comes to making their club very powerful from a financial perspective.

Was at the game again today, could not believe how many supporters they have. It is just unbelievable. I'm sure the Bulldogs convert just as many if not more followers to members. Actually I'm confident that we convert more.

Lots of supporters, with good management = financial powerhouse = best fitness resources, best coaching resources, best facilities, best development resources etc.

The one thing the Magpies have done unbelievably well is the development of their youth. They were the first to have dedicated development coaches and it has been paid back in spades. In the last few years no club has promoted youth that has had such a large impact from their first game.

Credit to them, they were easily the best side in it this year. But they have a lot of things going for them.

2 flags in 52 years for the most powerful club in the land is still not a pass mark. However, I would do anything just do be able to drink from the Premiership cup just once, I'm not greedy.

It was torture being their today, I admire the Magpies, but gee whiz, I still hate them with everything I have ...

[mighty_west]

Re: Collingwood

Let's not forget.

Easily the biggest supporter base just ready to be tapped. This gives them an undeniable advantage when it comes to making their club very powerful from a financial perspective.

Was at the game again today, could not believe how many supporters they have. It is just unbelievable. I'm sure the Bulldogs convert just as many if not more followers to members. Actually I'm confident that we convert more.

Lots of supporters, with good management = financial powerhouse = best fitness resources, best coaching resources, best facilities, best development resources etc.

The one thing the Magpies have done unbelievably well is the development of their youth. They were the first to have dedicated development coaches and it has been paid back in spades. In the last few years no club has promoted youth that has had such a large impact from their first game.

Credit to them, they were easily the best side in it this year. But they have a lot of things going for them.

2 flags in 52 years for the most powerful club in the land is still not a pass mark. However, I would do anything just do be able to drink from the Premiership cup just once, I'm not greedy.

It was torture being their today, I admire the Magpies, but gee whiz, I still hate them with everything I have ...

Agree with everything you said there, especially the youth, days of having to go in with your most experienced is a thing of the past, and they showed this year that no matter what their names are or how many games played, doesn't give you free tickets to get a game, it puts every player on notice from round 1 to make sure you work your ass off to get a game, and doesn't put noses out of joint or lose younger players confidence if they really deserve a game ahead of experienced players.

[KT31]

Re: Collingwood

No matter if you hate them or not, they are a club with amazing success over 100 years of football and their club culture and their ability to give something to their fans is to be admired. 40 grandfinals and 15 flags says it all. .

WE do have a better win / loss ratio.

[Before I Die]

Re: Collingwood

Agree with everything you said there, especially the youth, days of having to go in with your most experienced is a thing of the past, and they showed this year that no matter what their names are or how many games played, doesn't give you free tickets to get a game, it puts every player on notice from round 1 to make sure you work your ass off to get a game, and doesn't put noses out of joint or lose younger players confidence if they really deserve a game ahead of experienced players.

What makes you think Collinwood's model of bringing in young players would necessarily be as successful at other clubs? They spend more on the football department than any other team. This goes into developing these young players and drilling them in the team game plans. They have their own VFL team and an army of specialist coaches and technicians. This was the smart move that Eddie made. He knew they had the most money and he was sure that had to transferable into an on-field advantage. They can't cheat the salary cap anymore so they poured it into every other aspect of the football department that had the possibility of giving them an edge.

I am not saying it is wrong to give young players an opportunity, but if people believe that that is all a team needs to do to win a premiership they are kidding themselves. Just like the Grant Thomas article, it is easy to pick out whatever facts one likes to support ones own argument. Three of the last four AFL Premierships have been won by teams with their own VFL team. Perhaps this is the silver bullet? I watched today's game with 4 friends. At the end of the game we all picked our Norm Smith Medallist. We came up with 5 different Collingwood players. This Premiership was one by the best football department in the league.

[mighty_west]

Re: Collingwood

What makes you think Collinwood's model of bringing in young players would necessarily be as successful at other clubs? They spend more on the football department than any other team. This goes into developing these young players and drilling them in the team game plans. They have their own VFL team and an army of specialist coaches and technicians. This was the smart move that Eddie made. He knew they had the most money and he was sure that had to transferable into an on-field advantage. They can't cheat the salary cap anymore so they poured it into every other aspect of the football department that had the possibility of giving them an edge.

I am not saying it is wrong to give young players an opportunity, but if people believe that that is all a team needs to do to win a premiership they are kidding themselves. Just like the Grant Thomas article, it is easy to pick out whatever facts one likes to support ones own argument. Three of the last four AFL Premierships have been won by teams with their own VFL team. Perhaps this is the silver bullet? I watched today's game with 4 friends. At the end of the game we all picked our Norm Smith Medallist. We came up with 5 different Collingwood players. This Premiership was one by the best football department in the league.

Unfortunately time & time again we end up a little short and unfortunately a select few have failed in the big games, Rocket even made comment himself that he should have given more game time to a few kids, to at least have more options when it counts rather than just going in with experienced players whatever the case.

When it comes to my own opinion about this, i have watched our finals in 08, the Geelong & Hawthorn losses, in 09 the Saints & Geelong losses, in 2010 the Saints & Collingwood losses, all big finals against strong teams with an intensity & workrate that beat us each time [except for last years Prelim where it could have gone either way], and players that just don't lift when they are expected to when the heat rises, and have a history of not stepping up, that says something to me.

I also don't really care about depth unless that depth can be relied on to play their part in the heat of the battle, and the only way to do that is by experience at the top level, Collingwood have showed the way this year by not always relying on players that have failed in the past or near their use by date - Fraser, Lockyer, O'bree to name a few, the positive was that Grant stepped up, Roughead showed how good he is going to be in patches, Wood now a regular, all positives, but we just didn't go far enough imo, regularly relying on those that have not stepped up when it counted.

I like to think that we had to be in a position with pressing 3 years in a row to be able to go in with good depth, a team of say 29 or 30 players that have experience to play their role and play that role well when required, especially when injuries hit, and the only way to do that is give more experience to more players, if a player is not fit enough to play decent enough, he simply shouldn't play, and bringing in one or two kids here & there into a strong team shouldn't disrupt things enough to be the difference between winning & losing games, a position we have been in.

By saying your mates came up with 5 players from todays game, because they have the best football dept in the league, we might as well just shut up shop in that case.....btw, my pick was Jolly.