Preliminary Finals

[LostDoggy]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Entertaining game. The pies were lucky to get out of that, Buddys last goal would have made a great, Eddie destroying, match winner.

[Sedat]

Re: Preliminary Finals

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/124009/default.aspx

I love ther sheer ruthlessness of Clarkson, especially after such a brave performance from his team. He is not giving the players an out clause because of potentially dodgy umpiring decisions, the loss of criticasl structural players like Roughead and Gilham, or lauding a brave effort that just fell short against a superior opponent. He is prepared to state for the public record that they should have finished the job they started so brilliantly in the first 3 quarters. Check out these ruthless post-match quotes:

"We play a tough, volatile sport. I don't want anything to do with pride or bad luck and all that sort of rubbish that is going to come our way because it was a noble effort."

"We should have won a game of footy and we miss out on a Grand Final because we weren't hard enough and tough enough for long enough."

"Collingwood's rebound rate in the last quarter was the highest it was for the game and that was all because we couldn't retain possession of the ball once we got centre-forward."

"We couldn't mark the ball, we were averaging 25 or 30 marks a quarter for the first three quarters and then only have 11 marks for the whole last quarter that ultimately cost us the game."

"I don't want our players to have a warm, fuzzy feeling about being noble and all that sort of stuff. We set ourselves to win this game and go to a Grand Final and we failed."

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Love listening to Clarkson, a very astute coach who doesn't sugarcoat like a lot of his peers do.

Comes out in the way Hawthorn play, doesn't it? They were amazing for three quarters.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Terrific response from Clarkson, just ensuring that they're not satisfied with a great "Effort"
Hopefully our new coach adopts this attitude.
I remember a famous Sheedy speech after the 83 GF when Hawthorn smashed them.
Got up and blasted the Shit out of the players and officials for accepting "Getting There"
Essendon won the next two GF's

[Topdog]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Puopolo was the most important player on the ground in many ways - game turned on his mistakes and the ball bouncing behind him.
)

He certainly was. Micks move to change Leon who the poo killed to Toovey was just about the turning point.

[The Underdog]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Bateman was the turnover king, he looked unsure and old. If I was Hawthorn I would be ropeable over his second half in particular. Young Shoenmakers stood up most of the night I thought.

To be fair he was considerably worse after the head clash with Thomas and like many of his teammates in the last quarter, looked completely shagged. The week off (which they earned) was the deciding factor in Collingwood winning the game. They only got some space in the last quarter when Hawthorn were too tired to apply the pressure they had for the first 3 quarters.

[mjp]

Re: Preliminary Finals

I thought the umpires overall didn't influence the game. They will always make mistakes (as they did), but as a neutral at the game tonight you see things differently. Hawks had lots of chances and just fluffed it.

I agree with this. Dont miss EASY goals. Dont miss '50-50' goals. Dont miss 30-70 goals. In a low scoring game, you will be replaying them in your dreams. In a low scoring elimination final, you will be replaying them in your dreams for 6 months.

It is tough on Puopolo because he is a kid in his first season, but that shank in the 3rd quarter from a set shot 30m out? No excuse for that...miss, OK. But miss because you clearly haven't got a practised routine?

[mjp]

Re: Preliminary Finals

I love ther sheer ruthlessness of Clarkson, especially after such a brave performance from his team. He is not giving the players an out clause because of potentially dodgy umpiring decisions, the loss of criticasl structural players like Roughead and Gilham, or lauding a brave effort that just fell short against a superior opponent. He is prepared to state for the public record that they should have finished the job they started so brilliantly in the first 3 quarters.

I like it as well - but what we will find out next year is whether or not the players like it. It is all very well saying this stuff to appease the membership base, but I don't like the way he is absolving himself and the coaches of all the blame here. It was very obvious in the last q that Collingwood had cut off Hawthorn across half-forward - the behind the footy vision was showing how few targets there were available - yet they persisted with Gibson loose behind the ball. I am watching it again now - what Clarkson was complaining about (lack of marks in last q) he contributed too...who is there to mark the thing?

The Hawthorn coaches needed to have someone presenting up to the kicker from the half forward line - they were purely dependent on mids running back towards goal and they were either too tired or just didn't want to do it anymore. The Toovey to Puopolo thing was good for Collingwood - were was the Hawthorn reaction?

Still watching the replay - Rioli run down by Thomas in the last minute? Well, who was he going to kick it too? I call bad coaching - the Hawthorn effort was enormous, but the team structure in the last q was poor and didn't allow them to succeed.

[mjp]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Lewis is slow and his kicking is dubious. But he is just so desperate around contested footy...

[Topdog]

Re: Preliminary Finals

I agree with this. Dont miss EASY goals. Dont miss '50-50' goals. Dont miss 30-70 goals. In a low scoring game, you will be replaying them in your dreams. In a low scoring elimination final, you will be replaying them in your dreams for 6 months.

It is tough on Puopolo because he is a kid in his first season, but that shank in the 3rd quarter from a set shot 30m out? No excuse for that...miss, OK. But miss because you clearly haven't got a practised routine?

Yep they missed so many from 30m on a slight angle. Hodge in the 3rd and then Puopolo from the same spot were both shockers. Then Mitchell gets a go from the same spot and drills it.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Preliminary Finals

I like it as well - but what we will find out next year is whether or not the players like it. It is all very well saying this stuff to appease the membership base, but I don't like the way he is absolving himself and the coaches of all the blame here. It was very obvious in the last q that Collingwood had cut off Hawthorn across half-forward - the behind the footy vision was showing how few targets there were available - yet they persisted with Gibson loose behind the ball. I am watching it again now - what Clarkson was complaining about (lack of marks in last q) he contributed too...who is there to mark the thing?

The Hawthorn coaches needed to have someone presenting up to the kicker from the half forward line - they were purely dependent on mids running back towards goal and they were either too tired or just didn't want to do it anymore. The Toovey to Puopolo thing was good for Collingwood - were was the Hawthorn reaction?

^^This

[Maddog37]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Lewis is slow and his kicking is dubious. But he is just so desperate around contested footy...

Daniel Cross like?

I actually loved the way the umpires adjudicated in the last term. I wish that was the norm.

[1eyedog]

Re: Preliminary Finals

Daniel Cross like?

I actually loved the way the umpires adjudicated in the last term. I wish that was the norm.

More natural talent than Cross IMO. I like Lewis.

[Sedat]

Re: Preliminary Finals

I like it as well - but what we will find out next year is whether or not the players like it. It is all very well saying this stuff to appease the membership base, but I don't like the way he is absolving himself and the coaches of all the blame here. It was very obvious in the last q that Collingwood had cut off Hawthorn across half-forward - the behind the footy vision was showing how few targets there were available - yet they persisted with Gibson loose behind the ball. I am watching it again now - what Clarkson was complaining about (lack of marks in last q) he contributed too...who is there to mark the thing?

The Hawthorn coaches needed to have someone presenting up to the kicker from the half forward line - they were purely dependent on mids running back towards goal and they were either too tired or just didn't want to do it anymore. The Toovey to Puopolo thing was good for Collingwood - were was the Hawthorn reaction?

Still watching the replay - Rioli run down by Thomas in the last minute? Well, who was he going to kick it too? I call bad coaching - the Hawthorn effort was enormous, but the team structure in the last q was poor and didn't allow them to succeed.

Would you say the same thing about Rocket and the Dogs structure in the last qtr of the 2009 PF? What structures you put in place during the week and what the players execute on the day (especially late when fatigue sets in) can differ. I agree with your observations by the way - Hawthorn's structure broke down badly in the last qtr with the forward line being sucked upfield. But was this players not playing to instructon or the structure being flawed to begin with? Bit of both probably.

I heard the Clarkson presser this morning. His words in print were black and white but the spoken version couldn't disguise the hurt he was feeling and the pride he had in his team's effort. And I am sure he will make an abusive phone call to Gieschen during the week. But to his eternal credit he is refusing to make any public utterances pointing to excuses/reasons for not winning. Whether it was players not following instructions or flat-out fatigue setting in, or the coaches not structuring up properly in the last qtr, Hawthorn (like us in 2009) were unable to finish off the job they so brilliantly orchestrated against a superior opponent for the vast majority of the game. Collingwood (like St Kilda in 2009) were never going to be subdued for 120 minutes.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Preliminary Finals

I didn't see any of the game. My father said Felicity was getting 'excited' with the fist pumps while Jeff looked worried. Maybe he still got a 'win' last night?