Travis Cloke?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Travis Cloke?

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.


I fundamentally disagree with trading and it can cause potential problems within the team if one player gets paid a fortune more than everyone else, but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

[Sedat]

Re: Travis Cloke?

We've got as much chance of getting Travis Cloke to the kennel as we have of getting Travis Bickle.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Travis Cloke?

We've got as much chance of getting Travis Cloke to the kennel as we have of getting Travis Bickle.

We might not have the chance, but gee, it's nice to dream of having him. I know lots of people think we're miles from contending, but what would our record for this season be if we had him in the forward line? I think you could make a decent argument that we'd be 5-2 with victories against the Crows and Pies.

Admittedly, this would only have us 7th on the ladder as it currently stands, but

[LostDoggy]

Re: Travis Cloke?

Cloke is a Collingwood kid, isn't he .Even given that loyalty is dead etc etc, its hard to see how or why he would come to us. This is all pie in the sky.

Having said that, he is a huge presence and I'd be happy if we threw any amount of cash and players at him.

[Happy Days]

Re: Travis Cloke?

We've got as much chance of getting Travis Cloke to the kennel as we have of getting Travis Bickle.

We..can...not...touch...him he's under contract no?

Seriously, as if this is even a debate. Cloke is a gun beyond a gun and would make our side so much better, and could play for another 8 years, more than enough time to not suck again. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[1eyedog]

Re: Travis Cloke?

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.


I fundamentally disagree with trading and it can cause potential problems within the team if one player gets paid a fortune more than everyone else, but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

It's only more important to be young than good to young people, and it depends how you define good to the old.

I fundamentally disagree with trading unless it's Travis Cloke, or any other A grade talent we can lure to the club with big bucks So it's less about a culture of trading and more about not giving up picks?

What is it you don't like about trading, the culture, jealousy amongst the playing group because the A grader is on big bucks or is it more that you have to give up picks?

Do you think that Melbourne's players are jealous of Clarke and that this is a problem, or do the Freo players resent Ross Lyon? I'm sure Sharrod Wellingham was livid when Luke Ball came over from St. Kilda on 200k more than him. It's all about money and 95% of players know that.

[1eyedog]

Re: Travis Cloke?

Cloke is a Collingwood kid, isn't he .Even given that loyalty is dead etc etc, its hard to see how or why he would come to us. This is all pie in the sky.

Having said that, he is a huge presence and I'd be happy if we threw any amount of cash and players at him.

It sure looks like it.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Travis Cloke?

Two things I like about this is
1) We're hopefully going to swim at the deep end of the pool.
( no Russell's Bates or other small fish)
2) we've got salary cap room for a big fish

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Travis Cloke?

It's only more important to be young than good to young people, and it depends how you define good to the old.

I fundamentally disagree with trading unless it's Travis Cloke, or any other A grade talent we can lure to the club with big bucks So it's less about a culture of trading and more about not giving up picks?

What is it you don't like about trading, the culture, jealousy amongst the playing group because the A grader is on big bucks or is it more that you have to give up picks?

Do you think that Melbourne's players are jealous of Clarke and that this is a problem, or do the Freo players resent Ross Lyon? I'm sure Sharrod Wellingham was livid when Luke Ball came over from St. Kilda on 200k more than him. It's all about money and 95% of players know that.

My issues with trading are:

How can you ask for and expect loyalty if you are happy to ship off a player when a better offer comes along?

How do you retain players when one player is taking up a disproportional amount of the salary cap (and potentially even ask players to except less than they deserve to stay)

Yes, I could see a Ryan Griffen fielding offers if he was winning B & F's and getting half of what someone else was getting.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Travis Cloke?

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.

I love how you like to pick and choose words to fit your context.

but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

Simplistic way of looking at it.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Travis Cloke?

Saying we are interested is very different to going through with the deal

Its smart of Jason McCartney to express 'interest' in Travis Cloke

Its also smart of Cloke's father to field offers from other clubs to drive up his sons salary

Hopefully by doing so it will drive up Cloke's asking price at Collingwood up by a few hundred thousand dollars

It may not yield us Travi$ Clok€ but hopefully it will further squeeze Collingwood's salary cap even further, which may preclude a desirable Victorian destination/club from competing with us for another player at the end of the season (eg a younger interstate player who wants to return home or another free agent who may be available)

[LostDoggy]

Re: Travis Cloke?

My issues with trading are:

How can you ask for and expect loyalty if you are happy to ship off a player when a better offer comes along?

How do you retain players when one player is taking up a disproportional amount of the salary cap (and potentially even ask players to except less than they deserve to stay)

Yes, I could see a Ryan Griffen fielding offers if he was winning B & F's and getting half of what someone else was getting.

Trading is a fact of life and any club which turns its back on it, is destined for failure. It is a fundamental avenue of recruiting and we need to be across it in the same way we are with resarching draft opportunities.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Travis Cloke?

It's more important to be young than good.


Some people are saying they would rather Chris Knights and Jordan Russell. FFS.


I fundamentally disagree with trading and it can cause potential problems within the team if one player gets paid a fortune more than everyone else, but surely if we could get Cloke without having to pony up draft picks it's a no-brainer.

There wouldnt even be a trade involved.

All those saying that we need another three years ... timeframe is all off. Firstly, one of the key reasons we would be competitive is Brian Lake. He cant wait another 8 years. If we get a bookend up front to complement Brian down back we would both the best FB and FF in the league. As for rebuilding we have a stack of first and second round picks this year... you can spend too many years trying to pick up early picks, look at melbourne. Lake is a massive reason we would be a premiership chance, we need to maximise our opportunity while he's still playing well.

With Cloke plus development of various young 'uns plus early draft picks this year, we'll be serious challengers in two years, not 4 to 8 years, when GWS and GC will be at their peak.

Having said all that, next to zero chance it'll happen.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Travis Cloke?

Saying we are interested is very different to going through with the deal

Its smart of Jason McCartney to express 'interest' in Travis Cloke

Its also smart of Cloke's father to field offers from other clubs to drive up his sons salary

Hopefully by doing so it will drive up Cloke's asking price at Collingwood up by a few hundred thousand dollars

It may not yield us Travi$ Clok€ but hopefully it will further squeeze Collingwood's salary cap even further, which may preclude a desirable Victorian destination/club from competing with us for another player at the end of the season (eg a younger interstate player who wants to return home or another free agent who may be available)

Jason Cloke's father showed no loyalty to his clubs as a player and will advise his son to act in the same way

A leopard never changes its spots

[1eyedog]

Re: Travis Cloke?

My issues with trading are:

How can you ask for and expect loyalty if you are happy to ship off a player when a better offer comes along?

How do you retain players when one player is taking up a disproportional amount of the salary cap (and potentially even ask players to except less than they deserve to stay)

Yes, I could see a Ryan Griffen fielding offers if he was winning B & F's and getting half of what someone else was getting.

I understand perfectly what you're saying. Personally speaking I know I feel in love with the romance of loyalty at our club in a climate where footballers were loyal, I just missed Dempsey, Round et al. but Kelvin Templeton broke my heart, even though I understood the reasons why he left. If we hadn't had this level of loyalty when I was a kid football would never have held me in the same way it did. I don't know how kids connect with broad scale trading today, there's no substance in it and a real sense of romance with game is lost once broad scale trading happens. This intangible is now lost, but the spectacle (theatre) of the game is what holds audiences now, just as it did in a Roman ampitheatre 2000 years ago. The idea of loyaly lingered far longer in the AFL than almost all other team sporting codes in the world, and this is what made it unique.

The problem with expecting loyalty and accepting trading is that our psychology has caught up with accepting trading as a natural beast in the contemporary AFL climate, but our expectation of loyalty is lagging behind that.