Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

[1eyedog]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Let's start naming names then?

Guys I think of as outstanding wet-weather footballers (because of their skill level) include:

Peter Matera
Maurice Rioli
Chris Lewis
Robbie Flower
....you get the idea.

I guess what I am saying is that the idea people have that 'smash and bash, hard at it' (or whatever other cliche's you want to use) are well suited to wet weather is crap. Guys who can't kick, have even more trouble. Guys who can't mark, really, really, really cant mark. And players who aren't clean below the knees are basically useless.

As for 'Skillful and Champion' being mutually exclusive, you might be right from one perspective - that just because a player has good skills does not mean he is a champ, but if the reverse is true there are not too many examples I can think of! I think what you are really trying to say is that weak minded outside players - often kindly described as 'skillful' - are no good in the wet. I dont actually think we have too many of those either, and a couple who might eventually fit the category are way too young to be tarred by such a description...I would further say such players are no good wet OR dry.

As for your 'we have a team of skilfull players' line, I will dispute that as well. We actually have very few highly skilled players in our team at the moment - and some such as Addison and Hahn who are complete liabilities.

Champions who are not skillful (I can think of some)

Tony Liberatore (Brownlow medal)
Warwick Capper (Coleman medal)
Tony Shaw (Collingwood Capt, Premiership Coach)
I could continue.....

I was not trying to say mentally weak either. I meant what I said, skillful players can be weak in the wet, i.e they require dry conditions to attain optimal ball control etc... Also I believe we have many skillful players, that is why we were so successful at the end of 2006 before other teams caught onto our game plan. We played a game of precision kicking and running within very tight spatial confines, requiring great skill.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

History says a team that gets flogged by over 100 points, come back and win the following week...

LETS MAKE HISTORY!!!

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Champions who are not skillful (I can think of some)

Tony Liberatore (Brownlow medal)
Warwick Capper (Norm Smith medal)
Tony Shaw (Collingwood Captain and Legend)
I could continue.....

I was not trying to say mentally weak either. I meant what I said, skillful players can be weak in the wet, i.e they require dry conditions to attain optimal ball control etc... Also I believe we have many skillful players, that is why we were so successful at the end of 2006 before other teams caught onto our game plan. We played a game of precision kicking and running within very tight spatial confines, requiring great skill.

I agree with mjp.

It takes more skill to handle and dispose of the ball cleanly and accurately in the wet. The more skillful players have more chance of doing that than those lesser skilled players.

Hawkins owned the wet.

[Mantis]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I guess if it is wet and we have to put our bodies on the line then it'll be a further test of our physicality. My query on the possible wet weather is that in the past few years in most cases when we've been called on to play in the wet we've often failed to adapt our game. We've tried to play dry weather footy in wet conditions. We'll see if we have gotten smarter as well as harder. It used to be that these kind of days were made for us, now I'm not so sure.

You would hope players like West, Boyd, Cross and Hahn would excel in wet conditions.

One player who loves playing in the wet is our new ruckman Ben Hudson, expect him to be fighting and scrapping at the bottom of the pack come Saturday.

[1eyedog]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I agree with mjp.

It takes more skill to handle and dispose of the ball cleanly and accurately in the wet. The more skillful players have more chance of doing that than those lesser skilled players.

Hawkins owned the wet.

I generally agree. I have just seen highly skilled players come back down to the skills of the average player through wet conditions. My opinion :

[hujsh]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

History says a team that gets flogged by over 100 points, come back and win the following week...

LETS MAKE HISTORY!!!

Richmond didn't in 06. But then again they're Richmond

[1eyedog]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Sorry, Warwick Capper won the Coleman, not the Norm Smith, that's a typo.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I think West's field kicking is fine.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I'm stating to like West's kicks. While can can't give the ball a roost from outside 50 he has a neat kick and can hit a target in the forward 50 (all based on Sundays game)

Sorry, forgot to quote post. Here it is

[Twodogs]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I generally agree. I have just seen highly skilled players come back down to the skills of the average player through wet conditions. My opinion :

My take on it is speed is the factor that gets affected by wet weather the most. The quicker players are bought back to a similiar speed to the other guys and become targets for more tackles and physical contact than they would normally expect.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Who get's Davey then? Possibly Addison?

Maybe, although I think that's a dangerous move. Addison has a bit of toe and size about him, but I think Davey would probably be far too 'nimble/slippery' and smart for him. Despite that, it's something that might eventuate purely because we haven't got a whole lot of other options. Morris hasn't done well in the past on him, so I'd cancel him out and play Morris on Robbo. He's the right match-up for Robertson.

Hargrave is a possibility, he's played on a few forward pocket types over the years and at times done alright. Still, it's risky to match him up against Davey - especially if he's in any kind of decent form. We don't appear to have any clear sort of match-up for Davey, which could be a bit of a worry.

Agree Hargrave will get first go, but we don't have a lot of depth in the back half. Could Griffen get the job again, may hurt him going the other way?

Obviously depends where Davey & Sylvia play, but if for instance they both play forward, then Griffen's probably going to have to spend some time on Sylvia as you mentioned. Griff's good in the contests and as you suggested, could hurt Sylvia on the rebound. This would therefore free up Hargrave to play on Davey.

Our depth down back is ordinary, if any side is able to find 2-3 winners in the forward half, then we're in a bit of a trouble, especially if they're the Davey/Sylvia/Robertson types - the small to medium forwards.

[1eyedog]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

My take on it is speed is the factor that gets affected by wet weather the most. The quicker players are bought back to a similiar speed to the other guys and become targets for more tackles and physical contact than they would normally expect.

Ok, in this sense then is it possible that those extra tackles and body contact (because in the wet speed is compromised) creates more pressure and thus impacts on skill levels?

[westdog54]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Ok, in this sense then is it possible that those extra tackles and body contact (because in the wet speed is compromised) creates more pressure and thus impacts on skill levels?

Sounds about right. I'm definitely with MJP in that wet weather in itself shouldn't affect the skills of highly skilled players.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Hill mentioned in a post match interview that he didn't know what to do when McLeod stood next to him for parts of the last qtr on Sunday. Hill mentioned that McLeod had been a hero of his growing up and was a bit awe-struck that he was actually playing on him.

Yes it's been a successful tactic of Craig's for a few years now, that McLeod get's the in-form indigenous forward from the other team - he consistently smashes them because they're still in awe of him. When I heard he had gone onto Hill I wasn't happy, and Hill didn't seem to do much after that move.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Maybe, although I think that's a dangerous move. Addison has a bit of toe and size about him, but I think Davey would probably be far too 'nimble/slippery' and smart for him. Despite that, it's something that might eventuate purely because we haven't got a whole lot of other options.

If Addison takes Davey we may as well all pack up and move to the Gold Coast.......He does not have the nouse to go with Davey. His commitment and endeavour is fine but davey is a compelte class above. A beaten Morris would play better on Davey than Addison would.