If you were Dean Bailey this week....

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I mean, he's going on about 'attacking' the Cats. It's one thing to be courageous, but is it just macho bravado? There's absolutely nothing to be gained by going on a suicide mission.. I doubt any of the kids will learn anything by getting smashed by a thousand points.

I'm not advocating negativity to simply limit a loss but also try to sneak a win. It's negative, yes, but it's an 'attacking' philosophy, in another sense, because it's trying to win with the available resources.

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

Jake Niall in the Age today http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/new...851012519.html(I've just read it) suggests that Melbourne don't have the cattle to carry out Bailey's game plan anyway, and that the stubborn path would be to slowly weed out players that can't adapt to his plan. That's just bad coaching and bad logic. By the time you weed out the players (who may have been perfectly serviceable under a different plan) your game plan would be a year or two out of date anyway and you would be even further behind than you already are. The ONLY reason a club/coach can be so stubborn is because of the mirage of our flawed draft system that promises "rewards" even if (or especially if) you have horrendous years, so much so that 'rebuilding years' are now an enshrined part of the competition, which is just a mockery of the whole damn thing. A club should actually be PENALISED for having crappy years, thus ensuring that clubs actually try to win most of the time. If that were the case, you can be certain that Bailey would be doing what any responsible/competent coach should be doing anyway, which is:

CREATING/TAILORING A GAME PLAN TO FIT THE PLAYERS YOU HAVE IN ORDER TO CREATE A WINNING CULTURE, WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY AND SYSTEMATICALLY UPGRADING YOUR LIST TO BECOME PREMIERSHIP CONTENDERS THROUGH GOOD SCOUTING AND DRAFTING.

This sentence should be tacked in big bold letters in the Carlton, Richmond and now Melbourne rooms. That's exactly how the SUCCESSFUL clubs go about it.

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

What the hell would do on the track this week and on gameday?

... not turn up and say my car broke down on Geelong Road ... poor Dean Bailey.

[hujsh]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I doubt Melbourne could play that defensive style. I bet if they hold onto the ball in the backline the Cats will get a goal.

[mjp]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I doubt Melbourne could play that defensive style. I bet if they hold onto the ball in the backline the Cats will get a goal.

I agree. I also think if they flood you will see Geelong use multiple up-back leads inside the forward 50 (some players start high, some low, lead in opposite directions) to split it open and score a MASSIVE total.

Jake Niall's article was interesting, but I still think it focussed on the wrong thing. Poor disposal through the midfield by heavy possession winners (Jones and McLean) is costing them as dearly as whatever the hell those forwards are doing. I love the way Jones goes at it, but there is more too it at senior level than swinging a leg at it...I cannot see how he is the great white hope...the great white workhorse maybe, but he needs to morph into a handball first player and QUICK.

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

The beauty -- if that's the right word -- of a proper zoned flood is that there should be no space to lead into. You'll have your man on man taggers following people around, but with massive numbers back zoning players play the space and not the man and leading players and their followers will run into their space clogging up everything. It only works with total defensive discipline, but maybe stay-at-home discipline is easier to learn in a week than how to beat Gary Ablett Jnr in a one on one situation at ground level.

There was no better team at hitting mobile targets inside their forward 50 than the 2001 Bombers, but Wallace's uber-flood certainly clogged up enough space that it wasn't quite the cakewalk they were expecting or used to.

Of course the Cats will still open up the defence sometimes -- it's not a foolproof plan -- but it's almost certain that in a conventional contest the Cats will definitely open up the forward 50 with their multiple leads in any case and score a massive total anyway.

---

(Just to clarify, now I'm just debating tactics for the sake of debating tactics because I love such things. I'm hardly suggesting that Bailey HAS to go down my route or Melbourne is doomed, or that your views, mjp and hujsh, are more wrong or right than mine. Just trying to debate the stance I've taken to see if it can be logically applied. Thought I'd clarify before anyone misunderstands and thinks that I'm being a stubborn s.o.b. and gets personally offended.)

[mjp]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

(Just to clarify, now I'm just debating tactics for the sake of debating tactics because I love such things. I'm hardly suggesting that Bailey HAS to go down my route or Melbourne is doomed, or that your views, mjp and hujsh, are more wrong or right than mine. Just trying to debate the stance I've taken to see if it can be logically applied. Thought I'd clarify before anyone misunderstands and thinks that I'm being a stubborn s.o.b. and gets personally offended.)

I figured that...but I can pretend to be upset if it helps the debate!

[hujsh]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

(Just to clarify, now I'm just debating tactics for the sake of debating tactics because I love such things. I'm hardly suggesting that Bailey HAS to go down my route or Melbourne is doomed, or that your views, mjp and hujsh, are more wrong or right than mine. Just trying to debate the stance I've taken to see if it can be logically applied. Thought I'd clarify before anyone misunderstands and thinks that I'm being a stubborn s.o.b. and gets personally offended.)

I think the tactics could work. The team is the problem.

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

Haha!

So can I...

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I think the tactics could work. The team is the problem.

No kidding.

[hujsh]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

No kidding.

I mean they couldn't implement them. We all know how crap they've been.

[mjp]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I have a bit of an issue with the Wallace 'uber-flood' example. Our players:

1/.Weren't totally terrible, and had come off a few years of finals footy.
2/.Believed in Wallace.

Melbourne aren't at that stage yet. If the 'Rev' was in charge, I would give the flood a go, but I cannot see how Bailey can do it without basically telling his players he has not faith in them.

The other thing about the uber-flood used by Wallace - that was at Telstra Dome. There is a fair bit of difference between trying to do it there and trying it at Kardinia park - which is absolutely massive. It is also very windy. The uber-flood would need to push right out to the 60m area when Melbourne kicked into...to much space. And if they get the ball, and have to run...they will be out on their feet by half time playing a full flood on that ground - assuming of course they actually try to score on the turnover.

Like I said. Keep the faith. Show faith in the group. Set them targets that they CAN achieve based on work-rate not the scoreboard. And be positive about the challenge ahead.

There is no better time to play Geelong than when coming off a big loss. Essendon won round 1, copped them round 2 and must be doubting where they are at after such a huge loss - after all, they were in form...didn't they just win? Maybe their gameplan will only work against bottom sides. Melbourne - they have been smashed and everyone expects them to lose. Stick to simple things and it will be OK.

Whatever I say about Melbourne, I still reckon the team that they are running out with is a stronger unit than the one we trotted out towards the end of last year - say the West Coast game for example.

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I mean they couldn't implement them. We all know how crap they've been.

I know. I was agreeing with you. It's definitely the team that is the problem.

Yet, there is always going to be some talent in an AFL level side, especially in these days of equalisation policies. There has to be enough cattle to implement SOME sort of matchday plan. It just seems that Bailey has brought a plan to Melbourne and is trying to fit square pegs into round holes without any thought as to the players he has at his disposal.

First thing Rocket did when he came to a dysfunctional Dogs team was sort out what our strengths were (running, speed, foot skills) and create a gameplan that tried to play to that, and allowed a natural evolution to the gameplan, seeing where it succeeded and failed, and continually modified it so that weaknesses and holes are rectified gradually so that we've ended up with a more balanced gameplan this year, adding players where needed while retaining a lot of our better players, a little over three years into his tenure. A gameplan simply has to be developed out of a side's current list and modified accordingly as the list grows, as a gameplan is a lot easier to modify and change than overhauling an entire 22 player list to fit some arbitrary gameplan that does not guarantee anything in itself anyway (many different teams have won premierships playing different styles so while there are common factors there is no one 'correct' gameplan, so to speak).

[LostDoggy]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

I have a bit of an issue with the Wallace 'uber-flood' example. Our players:

1/.Weren't totally terrible, and had come off a few years of finals footy.
2/.Believed in Wallace.

Melbourne aren't at that stage yet. If the 'Rev' was in charge, I would give the flood a go, but I cannot see how Bailey can do it without basically telling his players he has not faith in them.

The other thing about the uber-flood used by Wallace - that was at Telstra Dome. There is a fair bit of difference between trying to do it there and trying it at Kardinia park - which is absolutely massive. It is also very windy. The uber-flood would need to push right out to the 60m area when Melbourne kicked into...to much space. And if they get the ball, and have to run...they will be out on their feet by half time playing a full flood on that ground - assuming of course they actually try to score on the turnover.

Like I said. Keep the faith. Show faith in the group. Set them targets that they CAN achieve based on work-rate not the scoreboard. And be positive about the challenge ahead.

There is no better time to play Geelong than when coming off a big loss. Essendon won round 1, copped them round 2 and must be doubting where they are at after such a huge loss - after all, they were in form...didn't they just win? Maybe their gameplan will only work against bottom sides. Melbourne - they have been smashed and everyone expects them to lose. Stick to simple things and it will be OK.

Whatever I say about Melbourne, I still reckon the team that they are running out with is a stronger unit than the one we trotted out towards the end of last year - say the West Coast game for example.

Very good points especially re: Kardinia. You've sold me, coach. You've got me believing in you more than in Bailey!

ps. interesting that you're comparing them to us last year. Were we really that bad? (And both of us picked the Dogs to win 14 games this year, so I know we have similar views about our list THIS year)...

[mjp]

Re: If you were Dean Bailey this week....

ps. interesting that you're comparing them to us last year. Were we really that bad? (And both of us picked the Dogs to win 14 games this year, so I know we have similar views about our list THIS year)...

No, we weren't THAT bad for the year. Late we were though - we copped some absolute hidings. I remember laughing at some people telling me we were a chance against West Coast that infamous Friday night - and suggesting we might not actually SCORE.

If I could figure out where to look up the team I would post it here, but there were a heap of players in that night who were either not ready, never would be ready or were never going to be ready again.

I remain pretty upbeat about this year. Griffen and Gilbee back, Hahn and Murphy over their knees, Aker settled, I was expecting big things from Ray and Higgins (so scratch that) and have always been a believer in Hudson.

I maintain Cooney is a developing superstar, and his season last year (on no pre-season) was way better than it ever deserved to be...and you dont go from a top 4 candidate at the start of 07 to a bottom 4 candidate in 2008 with a better, fitter list. Sure, we won games without playing well in early 2007...but isn't that the sign of a GOOD team?

That said, I expect to split our games with the saints this year, and would not be that surprised if we didn't get up tomorrow.