ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

[Sedat]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

One of the reasons why my injury was hard to diagnose was the muscle bulk around the knee - it effectively compensated for the lack of an ACL.

You must have killer VMO's Fredi . Cyclists can do without the ACL because their primary motion is straight line, and their VMO muscles (the ball muscle in the quad just above the knee) are generally massive. I still think that 360 degree movement is significantly compromised in the event of an ACL tear, and further damage can be done to parts around the knee joint, most commonly cartilage.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

I've got no idea, so I preface the thread already. Hoping Slim might know more.

In just over 12 months Libba, C. Smith, R. Smith, Bob and Prudden (now confirmed by Bevo) have all done ACLs. Is this a simple bad run or symptomatic of a bigger problem?

Since I asked this question in 2016, we can add a 2nd ACL to Libba, 2nd to Roarke, 2nd to Redders, 1st ACL to Jong & Morris in 4 years (10 in total). I ask the wiser posters again with updated higher numbers, is 10 ACLs (& ACL tear to Morris last year) just actual bad luck, or is the high number something that the club needs to see if there's aggravating factors?

Some of the answers from 2016 in this thread make for a few interesting things to think about, if we are able to reduce the occurrence and reoccurrence rates which seem to be higher than average.

[boydogs]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

Mostly bad luck i would say but the risk of reoccurrence is definitely there

Issue is, if you say anyone that does their ACL is delisted because on raw numbers they're a good chance to do it again and leave you short, then you come across as uncaring and destroy the culture of the group which is to embrace the injured player and help them back on their feet

If the club shows loyalty to the injured player, they're more likely to get it from the stars they want to keep

[Bornadog]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

Since I asked this question in 2016, we can add a 2nd ACL to Libba, 2nd to Roarke, 2nd to Redders, 1st ACL to Jong & Morris in 4 years (10 in total). I ask the wiser posters again with updated higher numbers, is 10 ACLs (& ACL tear to Morris last year) just actual bad luck, or is the high number something that the club needs to see if there's aggravating factors?

Some of the answers from 2016 in this thread make for a few interesting things to think about, if we are able to reduce the occurrence and reoccurrence rates which seem to be higher than average.

I thought Slim answered this back in 2016. You can't blame this on Chris bell and his team

[josie]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

Just logged in. This is shit to hear about on a truly horrible news day.

I trust Moz and club to make right decision. He is a living legend and deserves to finish on his own terms but the footy gods can be cruel.

Young and Roberts more likely to get more games. Let’s hope they are up to it. Who knows Bevo might try them forward too. Yet another year where we are short on talls. Makes Boyd comeback even more critical.

The pessimist in me sees quite a few drubbings, the optimist remembers 2016. Come on Bevo - weave another story of overcoming adversity...

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

I thought Slim answered this back in 2016. You can't blame this on Chris bell and his team

I'm not. If I aim at Chris Bell I do.

10 ACLs and 1 ACL tear in 4 years seems beyond a horrific coincidence. I was trained to never believe in coincidences, so I ask a genuine question to people with more insight on the issue. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. I don't know body mechanics like Slim (that was a at 6 incidences at the time), ground surfaces, training loads, etc. I know from someone around the AFLW that they're looking at a lot of different factors to reduce ACL occurrences. AFLW are being proactive. I'm just asking does the club now look at this as a matter of top priority, or is it a matter of bad luck and coincidence. It's a fair question I think.

[Bornadog]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

I would love to see the stats from all clubs. Certainly the AFLW players have had a lot of ACL's.

The thing is I don't believe anyone in the whole world have figured out how to stop players getting an ACL. The twisting and turning by players throughout a game doesn't help, that is for sure.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

I would love to see the stats from all clubs. Certainly the AFLW players have had a lot of ACL's.

The thing is I don't believe anyone in the whole world have figured out how to stop players getting an ACL. The twisting and turning by players throughout a game doesn't help, that is for sure.

I don't want to say who was telling me about these things, but they are central in investigating and assessing injuries from the public stuff the AFEL release on the men's side, but intimately involved on the AFLW. The question I posed around this, and the answer, was bad luck accounts for a certain amount. But it can't be for all injuries. Some clubs have a very low rate of soft tissue and ACL injuries, you can't say they have good luck. Those clubs have good personnel. That was the general gist. Specifically on ACLs in AFLW everything is on the table to review. Body shape and female anatomy, hips and muscles down the upper leg, there's some small correlation that perhaps changes in hormone levels may be playing a role. There's no good luck/bad luck in this area, it's all gathering evidence with a view to reducing the occurrence and reoccurrence rates. It would be interesting if the club is hitting this issue, or just shrugging it's shoulders that this is a contact sport because nothing can be done. I personally have no idea on any of this, but I've a had a few long discussions on the topic and I'm sick of losing players at ACLs.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

Mostly bad luck i would say but the risk of reoccurrence is definitely there

Issue is, if you say anyone that does their ACL is delisted because on raw numbers they're a good chance to do it again and leave you short, then you come across as uncaring and destroy the culture of the group which is to embrace the injured player and help them back on their feet

If the club shows loyalty to the injured player, they're more likely to get it from the stars they want to keep

Interesting thought and points. So the 10 are:

Prudden (1st)
Jong (1st)
Morris (1st)

Bob (2nd)
Redders (3rd)
Libba (1st)
Libba (2nd)
Roarke (1st)
Roarke (2nd)
Clay Smith (3rd)


Being cold hearted. The ones on their first, did little to nothing since (Morris just did his). On the multiple list, Bob didn't have a great year after in 2017, Roarke has done little, Redders did little, Libba & Smith had good 2016's and vital in the flag. With that exception, and 7 of 10 being in recurrence series, it does highlight immense risk that anyone doing their first favourites. And we did the right thing by the players, even though by and large, there wasn't much return on performance across them. But the investment in culture hopefully pays dividends.

[boydogs]

Re: ACLs: Bad luck or something else?

But the investment in culture hopefully pays dividends.

Yep. Easy to say Roarke Smith isn't much good anyway, Morris is old anyway, Jong is always injured more generally & fringe, and Libba is a miscreant - though perhaps the only one worth the risk

But then go and delist Dale Morris hours before the fill-in draft ends and see what effect on the group that has