The Wrap Up

[G-Mo77]

Re: The Wrap Up

This trade period demonstrated that unless a player is quality in every sense then they are worth nothing. Every fringe player involved this trade period was basically free. If a player is tradeable, then he is worth nothing. It's only the best 22 ones that are worth anything, and even then some aren't.

True but yet there were deals like Dunn and Hoskin-Elliot which were outrageous in comparison. I've had numerous texts from a Collingwood mate fuming over those deals. I really thought with 2 teams interested in Hrovat and not a preference for him we would have got more. It's disappointing.

[soupman]

Re: The Wrap Up

True but yet there were deals like Dunn and Hoskin-Elliot which were outrageous in comparison. I've had numerous texts from a Collingwood mate fuming over those deals. I really thought with 2 teams interested in Hrovat and not a preference for him we would have got more. It's disappointing.

Don't get me wrong I'm not overly impressed with the deal either, but it's not like GWS put the squeeze on with the WHE deal either.

And Collingwood is a terrible example of what market value is, in the past few seasons there has been no club as bad at the "buy low sell high" mantra as the Magpies. Every player they recruit is at peak value. Jesse White plays 3 good months of footy in his career, hunted by the Magpies. Levi Greenwood puts together the one decent season he has ever had, hunted by the Magpies. Mayne and Wells are another two excellent examples of players Collingwood could not have paid more for. They are absolute suckers. If Ayce Cordy had've had a half decent month of footy they would have offered us a pick in the 20's.

[Sedat]

Re: The Wrap Up

If we count his Bushranger year he has played 36 games of football in 5 years. I know he has had a wretched run with injuries and there are times he looks like a decent prospect but how much longer can we maintain him on the list given we are reasonably deep in the position he plays?

He's battling to save his AFL career in 2017, but then I would think both Hrovat and possibly Stevens are as well.

Thinking about it rationally, offering up a further 2 years for Hrovat on mid range $$ is likely to end up with the same scenario in 2 years time. I think we learnt from the continued 2 year contract extensions to Jarrad Grant that essentially ended up back at groundhog day.

[1eyedog]

Re: The Wrap Up

True but yet there were deals like Dunn and Hoskin-Elliot which were outrageous in comparison. I've had numerous texts from a Collingwood mate fuming over those deals. I really thought with 2 teams interested in Hrovat and not a preference for him we would have got more. It's disappointing.

Tuohy was a first rounder

[hujsh]

Re: The Wrap Up

Tuohy was a first rounder

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.

EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.

[Bornadog]

Re: The Wrap Up

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.


EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.

Hawks got future 2nd round to pass on to GC

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: The Wrap Up

Everything is an anti-climax after a premiership win and this trade period was exactly that for me

I can't turn off my bulldog obsessed nature, but I can try to have the odd time of year where I switch off - the trade period does not allow this, and in lots of respects it was a massive anti-climax for us, and so it feels like wasted energy - we got Cloke, all our fringe depth players moved on,

But again the draft will draw me back in and then I'll look forward to our squad getting back together and back to work with a now excellent development program in place

[boydogs]

Re: The Wrap Up

I'm in the camp that says we got a poor return for our outs, but look at it this way:

Travis Cloke, 13 games in 2016, pick 76

Joel Hamling, 12 games, pick 37 (35, 43, 61 (1035) for 40, 63 (541), valued 494 points)

Koby Stevens, 12 games, pick 67 (50, STK 2017 R5 (est. 8th, pick 89 assuming 6 free agent/priority insertions) (273) for 61, NM 2017 R4 (est. 12th, pick 67) (204), valued 69 points)

Nathan Hrovat, 4 games, pick 58 (NM 2017 R3 (est. 12th, pick 49), NM 2017 R4 (pick 67) (356) for WB 2017 R3 (est. 4th, pick 57), WB 2017 R4 (pick 75) (182), valued 174 points)

Need to make a lot of assumptions for Stevens & Hrovat, but we will probably get more for them than Collingwood did for Cloke, despite Cloke playing more games

[jeemak]

Re: The Wrap Up

So it sounds like it was our decision to move on Hrovat and Kobe for list spots? And yet we've contracted Hamilton and it looks like we're keeping Prudden. That reasoning doesn't work for me.

I think it's an admission we've seen what Stevens and Hrovat can produce, considered what they're likely to want to earn playing for us, and said we can't put a contract in front of them on that basis.

Hamilton and Prudden will be on basic contracts, the former seems to require more exposure and the latter according to VFL watchers had a bit to work with.

[hujsh]

Re: The Wrap Up

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.

EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.

Hawks got future 2nd round to pass on to GC

So looking at the trade wrap-up Geelong have Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder and GWS have St.Kilda and Geelong's 2017 2nd rounders. Since the St Kilda pick was for Steele I have to assume the Geelong one is what they got form the Hawks. I genuinly can't find where Geelong gave that pick up though so I'm wondering if it's a mistake.

Now looking at the Carlton and GWS trades it looks like they got Collingwood's second round pick rather than Geelong's so I will assume it is a mistake and Hawthorn traded Collingwood's second round pick (from Collingwood>GWS>Carlton>Hawks>Suns) and Geelong still have 2 second rounders next year.

[jeemak]

Re: The Wrap Up

Don't get me wrong I'm not overly impressed with the deal either, but it's not like GWS put the squeeze on with the WHE deal either.

And Collingwood is a terrible example of what market value is, in the past few seasons there has been no club as bad at the "buy low sell high" mantra as the Magpies. Every player they recruit is at peak value. Jesse White plays 3 good months of footy in his career, hunted by the Magpies. Levi Greenwood puts together the one decent season he has ever had, hunted by the Magpies. Mayne and Wells are another two excellent examples of players Collingwood could not have paid more for. They are absolute suckers. If Ayce Cordy had've had a half decent month of footy they would have offered us a pick in the 20's.

At the end of the season Collingwood were playing at the mark that could have competed with top four to six in the competition.

I do think they've been a touch haphazard with their list management, but we can't tell for sure. My view is they're going up the ladder in most definite terms in 2017.

[Remi Moses]

Re: The Wrap Up

The Swans have two picks in the first round and had significant salary cap issues to deal with. They've done OK
Giants are in a stronger position despite having to jettison a few guys as well to clear money.
Hawks are reloading and Geelong think they're in a good position as well.
Adelaide kept their powder dry and West Coast have done very well.

We probably haven't lost a lot of ground.

I'm not saying they haven't done okay, just making the point that most of the big boys have lost players

[boydogs]

Re: The Wrap Up

So looking at the trade wrap-up Geelong have Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder and GWS have St.Kilda and Geelong's 2017 2nd rounders. Since the St Kilda pick was for Steele I have to assume the Geelong one is what they got form the Hawks. I genuinly can't find where Geelong gave that pick up though so I'm wondering if it's a mistake.

Now looking at the Carlton and GWS trades it looks like they got Collingwood's second round pick rather than Geelong's so I will assume it is a mistake and Hawthorn traded Collingwood's second round pick (from Collingwood>GWS>Carlton>Hawks>Suns) and Geelong still have 2 second rounders next year.

Geelong kept their 2017 R2, GWS have St Kilda's 2017 R2 from Jack Steele and Collingwood's 2017 R2 from Will Hoskin-Elliott (direct trade)

[1eyedog]

Re: The Wrap Up

1st round with a second coming back and Smedts going. If Geelong does well and Carlton does poorly (both likely enough) it'll be a small downgrade.

EDIT: Was it Carlton's second rounder or someone else's? I thought Hawthorn got Carlton's second for that bundle of picks.

I think a future 2nd from Carlton. That said Geelong gave up a first rounder for Tuohy, so somewhere around 10-16 you'd think and Carlton's second going back to Geelong would be around 32-35. That's a fair upgrade even with Smedts as steak knives.

[KT31]

Re: The Wrap Up

I'm on the fence with our draft, Cloke for mine is a big plus and two picks in the top 30 is great.
I would have liked to have got a bit more for Hrovat and Stevens but if that is the market value then so be it, unlike the Lake trade we didn't rush it and had the whole week to gauge.
Don't know the ins and outs of the Deledio trade and as much as I would have loved to have seen Lid's in our colours and not GWS's it may have been a matter of a poor fitness test or just more important areas we need to address.
A bit has been said about Hurley not jumping on board ( a decision in years to come IMO he will immensely regret), but it was weeks ago and from the outside we seemed to lack in a contingency plan, it does stink a little of all eggs in one basket.
I like others think we have a couple of issues in our back and ruck stocks and instead of going forward we went backwards by losing both Hamling and Minson.
I think however we did do alright in the Hamling trade as two months ago he was hardly rated and Minson was cooked.
All in all we lost Hamling, some fringe players and Minson not bad going.
If we had pick 40 down and not pick 50 I would've been off the fence and a lot happier.
The timing of the signing of Hamilton was quite odd in my books and I'm not sure what will happen with Prudden as I haven't seen enough of him to make a call but another pick in the draft would be nice.
No pressure on Dal and our draft team but continued success is now more important to us than ever and you guys are the best in the business.
So over to you.