Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

[dog town]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

^^^

As usual a good summation dog town.

Agree with your thoughts on Griffen. He is being the shown the utmost respect by our opponents, maybe before time, but the attention he is receiving and the way he handles it will lay the foundations for his life as a midfielder. He is being hammered by the opposition who are giving him no space to work in, but he will find away around it and it will make him a better player and in the meantime we have other players picking up the slack.

Yep. Not only is it helping the side having him in the middle at the moment it is also going to be massive for him long term. Everytime he has a 3 goal/25 touch game he is going to get more attention. Now the trick for him is to do what Gary Ablett did and lift his work rate up another level. I see Griffen and Cooney as similar talents to Ablett and all developed at similar rates. Griff is where Ablett was at the same stage roughly.

It is also up to guys like Boyd, Cross and maybe more than ever a guy like Scotty West to sacrifice a bit of their own game to block for Griffen and get him some space. If he is getting heavy attention at the stoppages then we need to smash into the opposition. Fairly or unfairly it doesn't worry me you just need the guy doing it to doubt himself a bit. I have played shut down roles before and the moment you start getting smashed at stoppages from guys you cant see coming it makes your job basically impossible. We need to give him and Cooney a chop out when we can. Interesting that Daniel Kerr said today he misses Chick more than Judd or Cousins because Chick was really the muscle for the eagles. He freed up alot of the eagles gun midfielders.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

Yep. Not only is it helping the side having him in the middle at the moment it is also going to be massive for him long term. Everytime he has a 3 goal/25 touch game he is going to get more attention. Now the trick for him is to do what Gary Ablett did and lift his work rate up another level. I see Griffen and Cooney as similar talents to Ablett and all developed at similar rates. Griff is where Ablett was at the same stage roughly.

It is also up to guys like Boyd, Cross and maybe more than ever a guy like Scotty West to sacrifice a bit of their own game to block for Griffen and get him some space. If he is getting heavy attention at the stoppages then we need to smash into the opposition. Fairly or unfairly it doesn't worry me you just need the guy doing it to doubt himself a bit. I have played shut down roles before and the moment you start getting smashed at stoppages from guys you cant see coming it makes your job basically impossible. We need to give him and Cooney a chop out when we can. Interesting that Daniel Kerr said today he misses Chick more than Judd or Cousins because Chick was really the muscle for the eagles. He freed up alot of the eagles gun midfielders.

With this being the case, and your spot on with your thoughts, should we look at getting Hahn into the middle every so often to belt a few players, fairly of course. With his strength he would be the perfect foil to our ball playing midfielders, maybe just a 2 or 3 minute run per qtr, but in this time hopefully he can do a bit of damage.

On Griffen, his lack of conditioning shows at present. He just has got the tank yet to do what he wants, but in time as his body matures he will hopefully be able to burn players off with his work-rate not just his agility. The most impressive thing at present is that amount of times he finds himself with the ball in his hands at stoppages, he just knows where to be and that is something that can't be taught, well I don't think it can, it's just a skill that you have, Cooney is the same in that respect.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

Good points DT and Mantis.

I was also been pleased with the role Griffenn played against West Coast, and more generally this season with the way he gets the taps from Hudson and if he can't break away then at least he makes sure we get another bounce. Hudson very clearly looks for him at crucial times I reckon, just like Minson looks for Cooney (and Wynd used to look for Romero a fair bit too).

What I find a bit concerning is that Griffen tends to lose confidence a bit if his obvious contribution is down - it's probably only natural, but I think he needs to learn abit more about how to get some easy ball, like Aker ambles down to the backline every now and then. Also his team-mates could look to make sure he gets some easier possessions early on.

The other thing, is that Griffen (and also Hudson) seems to take it upon himself to do something when we're struggling. It's an excellent attribute but I think he often tries to do a bit much on these occassions. He needs to learn that he doesn't have to break away from a stoppage every time, and start mixing it up with some quick handpasses and maybe kicks so that he becomes a little less predictable.

He might learn a bit from Johnson I reckon, as Johnson's got much better this season at bringing others into the game rather than trying to do it all himself. As DT's noted before, he can actually be a really deft kick going forward when he doesn't try and force things too much.

In terms of the general game, what I really liked was the way we stepped up every time they challenged us. Pretty soon I noted that every time the Eagles cheer squad started their chant (that is every time they got a goal or two), we responded. Murphy was really important in this, and the game seemed to turn around him for much of the night. He seems at his best when he doesn't have time to think - on such occassions he just creates an opportunity and takes it, whereas when he was a bit more time he's more likely to spend his marks before he completely takes them, and to telegraph his moves a bit more.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

Another thing having Griffen, a fit Cooney and Cross has done is its allowed us to use Boyd more wisely. Boyd is a great ball getter but also one of the few players we have with the attributes to shut players down around the stoppages. We might see him and West used more defensively at times especially around the stoppages.

Agree wholeheartedly with his one DT. I've been an advocate for one of the West/Cross/Boyd trio needing to play a defensive role - Boyd was great over the weekend and if he can continue to limit the influence of the oppositions most form midfielder it certainly helps us out a lot. Great to see Rocket thrust him back into a defensive role after he played the majority of 07 as a ball winner.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

Good points DT and Mantis.

I was also been pleased with the role Griffenn played against West Coast, and more generally this season with the way he gets the taps from Hudson and if he can't break away then at least he makes sure we get another bounce. Hudson very clearly looks for him at crucial times I reckon, just like Minson looks for Cooney (and Wynd used to look for Romero a fair bit too).

What I find a bit concerning is that Griffen tends to lose confidence a bit if his obvious contribution is down - it's probably only natural, but I think he needs to learn abit more about how to get some easy ball, like Aker ambles down to the backline every now and then. Also his team-mates could look to make sure he gets some easier possessions early on.

The other thing, is that Griffen (and also Hudson) seems to take it upon himself to do something when we're struggling. It's an excellent attribute but I think he often tries to do a bit much on these occassions. He needs to learn that he doesn't have to break away from a stoppage every time, and start mixing it up with some quick handpasses and maybe kicks so that he becomes a little less predictable.

RT - I think this is a pretty accurate assessment of where Griff is at. He tends to press a bit at times and perhaps try do too much, take on too many men, and learning to balance that out is important. But the coaching staff obviously give him a license to play his game. He has been caught less this year and even when he has he generally is able to get it away to advantage.

But I think you are right he isn't picking up enough kicks in general play where he can just get on the end of it. He ranks 21st on the season for marks and I would have though he could perhaps get a few more cheap ones and use his footskills to advantage, but maybe he is attracting more opposition attention and so doesn't get the space to do that.

[dog town]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

I think he needs to learn abit more about how to get some easy ball, like Aker ambles down to the backline every now and then. Also his team-mates could look to make sure he gets some easier possessions early on.

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Absolutely. Cheap touches are the making of all great players. Griffen and Cooney both need to get more of them. Could be as simple as running an extra 5 metres to get a handball recieve 3 or 4 times a game. It is often one of the harder things for young players to pick up. Its generally a work rate or game reading problem.

The other thing, is that Griffen (and also Hudson) seems to take it upon himself to do something when we're struggling. It's an excellent attribute but I think he often tries to do a bit much on these occassions. He needs to learn that he doesn't have to break away from a stoppage every time, and start mixing it up with some quick handpasses and maybe kicks so that he becomes a little less predictable.

He might learn a bit from Johnson I reckon, as Johnson's got much better this season at bringing others into the game rather than trying to do it all himself. As DT's noted before, he can actually be a really deft kick going forward when he doesn't try and force things too much.
.

He does try to force things a bit sometimes and it can be to our detriment. How do you stop it without taking away some of his natural risk taking? Perhaps just needs to play things a bit smarter sometimes. They are always going to look for him to take on the tackler so it is only natural that he will draw players to him. If that means he has 2 or 3 players running past on the overlap then I think he should give the ball off. Experience should help with that. It is scary how often he breaks tackles though.

In terms of the general game, what I really liked was the way we stepped up every time they challenged us. Pretty soon I noted that every time the Eagles cheer squad started their chant (that is every time they got a goal or two), we responded. Murphy was really important in this, and the game seemed to turn around him for much of the night. He seems at his best when he doesn't have time to think - on such occassions he just creates an opportunity and takes it, whereas when he was a bit more time he's more likely to spend his marks before he completely takes them, and to telegraph his moves a bit more.

Totally agree. Murph took a mark from a really close kick (1st quarter I think) and it was absolutely rammed down his throat. The commentator gushed about the quality of his hands but I can remember him dropping bundles of chest marks even at his best. Its not a rare thing. Lots of players are better like that. The quality of him turning that eagles player inside out was amazing.

[dog town]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

But I think you are right he isn't picking up enough kicks in general play where he can just get on the end of it. He ranks 21st on the season for marks and I would have though he could perhaps get a few more cheap ones and use his footskills to advantage, but maybe he is attracting more opposition attention and so doesn't get the space to do that.

Very telling statistic. Uncontested marks are one of the greatest indicators of midfield workrate especially running workrate. Alot of things come into it but he should certainly be higher than 21st. Doing lots right but alot of room for improvement which is very exciting.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

Totally agree. Murph took a mark from a really close kick (1st quarter I think) and it was absolutely rammed down his throat. The commentator gushed about the quality of his hands but I can remember him dropping bundles of chest marks even at his best. Its not a rare thing. Lots of players are better like that. The quality of him turning that eagles player inside out was amazing.

Wasn't it just. Made it look effortless. It was a fine kick to him as well (was it Minson?), as the best option was to go over his head and allow him to run onto it. I imagine it was the kind of thing that Robbie Flower used to do.

I liked that he flew the flag for West as well, adn I think he's started stepping up re clutch shots at goal. he's playing a bit more like a leader. His tackle against Cox was just what we needed (though I'm glad Cox got pinged for throwing it, as there was a chance it could be called in the back were it not a throw).

re Griffen, I think one of the great things about him is that he seems determined to learn. He's a bit hard on himself I reckon, which might mean he'll over-correct a bit at times, but as you say, he still has a very exciting upside.

Eade might also be on a bit of a learning curve with him, in terms of working out where best to shuffle him when others take a turn in the middle. His mark and goal against the Tigers was pretty important, and a good sign that he could still slot it on a day when he was struggling. I hadn't seen him played up forward for awhile, so we might start seeing a bit more of that as well.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

Absolutely. Cheap touches are the making of all great players. Griffen and Cooney both need to get more of them. Could be as simple as running an extra 5 metres to get a handball recieve 3 or 4 times a game. It is often one of the harder things for young players to pick up. Its generally a work rate or game reading problem.

I would have thought that this is an area that Cooney has already improved in. His handball receives would be way up on previous years, it's not unusual to see him pick up 'cheap' kicks deep in defence. If it means he gains confidence in dishing the ball off then I'm all for it.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Game Day - Bulldogs vs Eagles

lets all remember that these guys have not actually played together for mare than 6 games as midfielders. I'm sure that with west back he will provide the experience and be tagged to free the younger guys up. Also I'm sure if Jonno was 100% he would love to get into the midfield and show the explosive pace like that day against Adelaide at the MCG two years ago when he broke away off the back flank. Give Griff some time as he will be fantastic and will get better with every game. Cooney also has had his first pre season and doesn't it make a hugh difference.