Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

[Ozza]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

Can't agree Ozza, not going great but still our leading clearance player today.

He's not kicking the ball Slim. 26 kicks for the whole year. Clearance stats don't cut the mustard when they count a clearance as having a handball in traffic to another bloke in traffic. He's going shithouse mate! We're talking about a best and fairest winner who is in the discussion of our best players when in form.

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

He's not kicking the ball Slim. 26 kicks for the whole year. Clearance stats don't cut the mustard when they count a clearance as having a handball in traffic to another bloke in traffic. He's going shithouse mate! We're talking about a best and fairest winner who is in the discussion of our best players when in form.

Do we drop him and let him find form in the VFL?

[Ozza]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

Do we drop him and let him find form in the VFL?

No.
He's not a droppable player (would have to be a sustained and spectacular form slump for that conversation to come up).

[Raw Toast]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

He's not kicking the ball Slim. 26 kicks for the whole year. Clearance stats don't cut the mustard when they count a clearance as having a handball in traffic to another bloke in traffic. He's going shithouse mate! We're talking about a best and fairest winner who is in the discussion of our best players when in form.

Going shithouse is way too harsh for mine. I think Libba is being asked to play a very different role to that which he played when he won the B&F. He's spending a fair bit of time up forward, often in a relatively defensive role, and seems like he is also being asked to quell some opposition mids. Someone (Ryan Buckland who does interesting analysis) has called him a designated tackler which is intriguing, and he's averaging more than double last year. This set of graphs is interesting in terms of his stats over the last few years.

I'm not saying Libba is in career best form, but it seems Bevo and the coaching group are trying to do a few things differently with the midfield this year. They haven't hit gold yet, but I think Libba's role has changed based on their new strategies. He's generally not getting the ball with space to kick it, and his hands remain above elite, so I'm not sure that we need to be worried about the dip in his kicking numbers (our efficiency with the ball has generally been good this year, so it's not like we are missing him kicking it).

We have an excess of half-back flankers, so part of the aim seems to be to find ways to involve them in productive ways. You can see how eager we are to get the ball in the hands of players like JJ and Murph in the forward half, and to involve Stringer more when he is around, as well as players like McLean. I value Libba's kicking, but he's much better at clearences than most at the club, so if his current role means he kicks less, and those named above kick (and run) more, then I can live with that.

[The Underdog]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

1. We need to acknowledge that Libba is going poorly at the minute. Can't get his hands on the footy.
2. We need to acknowledge that Tom Boyd is going super-poorly at the minute. His intensity was much better in the second half - but he is miles off good footy...and we sit here waiting and hoping - that it happens (again) soon.
3. The self belief our team has is off the charts, and when we are going poorly - Dahl, Bont, Stringer, Macrae, JJ, Bob and Matthew Boyd (amongst others - but in particular) find something really special.

Agree re Libba and Tom Boyd. Libba is a mile off his best and I'm honestly starting to wonder if Tom Boyd's finals series was a blip rather than an upward trend. I'm buggered if I know how he took all of those marks in the GF because he drops nearly everything the rest of the time.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

1. Dunkley's running is so impressive for someone so young. Not only does he excel at getting out the back, but he also generally makes the opposition pay. Two things however. He can still be a bit slow moving the ball on which can be a problem because quick movement is a key part of our style. Sometimes Dunkley wants to size things up rather than just quickly give the ball to someone in a better position (he had a bad moment with the ball deep on a wing in the 4th quarter, but made up for it with other contributions). Secondly, I suspect he might be told during the week that a big celebration of a goal that reduces our deficit to a bit over 5 goals is perhaps not so appropriate (but he is young and is looking like a fantastic pick).

2. I think Brisbane might do pretty well under Fagan. Perhaps it was the shared Hawthorn experience, but they were impressive in sweating on a few of our plays to turn the ball over. It was particularly noticeable that they picked off a number of our kicks inboard on the 45 degree angle, and they were also rewarded by sending crumbers to the back of packs in their 50 - it's been bugging me for awhile now (maybe all the time under Beveridge actually), that we still err relatively often on having too many people fly for the mark in the oppositions 50. I guess you have to choose your poison (and clearly we've generally done well), but Brisbane exploited it superbly today.

3. I know he's likely to retire after this year, but Murphy remains such a bloody good player. It's a delight to have the luxury of sending him forward at the moment. His ability to find space in a crowd is wonderful, and that chip to Dunkley off his left was one of the plays of the game - not as good as his kick to Bontempelli v Sydney, but still very impressive. Like Dunkley, Murphy also sometimes ignores the first good option, but I'm sure he has a license to do that, because he has the rare ability to see and create even better options (I'm not sure Dunkley ever will, though he'll give his all to improve every aspect of his game - it's not a major criticism because few people can create like Murphy can). That all said, it's a relief that his 300th is over. It seemed like he tried a bit hard in this game at times, and some of his kicking forward was uncharacteristically sloppy, and early on he wanted the ball when other options were better.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

1. We have too many plodders in the backline (Biggs/suckling/Boyd)
2. The form of Libba is concerning
3. Comebacks like that WONT happen against top 6 sides

[EasternWest]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

3. Zaine Cordy was outstanding yesterday. Read the ball well, killed a number of contests and used it well. Took a big step forward IMO.

2. The Lions aren't as bad as their reputation. It'll take a few years, but some of their kicking is excellent. I actually enjoyed watching them play.

1. Jake Stringer will take mark of the year one day.

[SlimPickens]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

1. Jake Stringer will take mark of the year one day.

Have you ever seen a more spectacular dropped mark highlight package? Must admit it is starting to grind my gears a fair bit, simply because he never bloody marks the thing.

[EasternWest]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

Have you ever seen a more spectacular dropped mark highlight package? Must admit it is starting to grind my gears a fair bit, simply because he never bloody marks the thing.

Never. It's ridiculous how high he gets, and it constantly hits him in the hands. Surely it's only a matter of time!

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

Also, Dunkley kicking a career high 3 goals and whilst playing under duress. If he can keep slotting goals, well, he's going to be very close to elite. It's going to be interesting seeing him in a few years playing as a midfielder with extra experience, strength and training.

[Twodogs]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

Also, Dunkley kicking a career high 3 goals and whilst playing under duress. If he can keep slotting goals, well, he's going to be very close to elite. It's going to be interesting seeing him in a few years playing as a midfielder with extra experience, strength and training.

Yep. I'm betting we don't end up with his little brother.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

1. Fair to say Zaine is better than Ayce . Draft pick steal
2. Lions under fagan look more like a football team
3. We need to be better for longer periods , to spasmodic currently .

[Flamethrower]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

Agree re Libba and Tom Boyd. Libba is a mile off his best and I'm honestly starting to wonder if Tom Boyd's finals series was a blip rather than an upward trend. I'm buggered if I know how he took all of those marks in the GF because he drops nearly everything the rest of the time.

1. It is called confirmation bias. Tom doesn't actually drop any more marks than other players....I have seen the "next big thing" Tom Lynch drop some very easy marks this year for example. It is just that every time Tom drops a mark it confirms your bias in your mind that he "drops everything".

The reality is that Tom is playing part time key forward and part time ruck, 2 positions where it usually takes many seasons to develop into a good player. Tom showed his potential on Grand Final day, and when he has 5 or 6 seasons in the system, I expect that to be the norm.

2. We are missing a lot of key players, so to be 4-1, regardless of form, augers well for the pointy end of the season.

3. Our backline is a bit disorganised at the moment, which is leading to allowing too many easy goals out the back.

[soupman]

Re: Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

1. It is called confirmation bias. Tom doesn't actually drop any more marks than other players....I have seen the "next big thing" Tom Lynch drop some very easy marks this year for example. It is just that every time Tom drops a mark it confirms your bias in your mind that he "drops everything".

The reality is that Tom is playing part time key forward and part time ruck, 2 positions where it usually takes many seasons to develop into a good player. Tom showed his potential on Grand Final day, and when he has 5 or 6 seasons in the system, I expect that to be the norm.

Disagree. Based on his career to date he is just about the worst mark I've seen. No matter the situation, whether it is a pack Mark or uncontested lead up the wing he is at best a 50-50 shot of marking it. And if he is going for a chest mark you can almost guarantee he is going to drop it.

His technique is terrible, best shown when he is taking overhead Marks. He doesn't adjust to catch the ball at all. Basically his whole plan is to stick his arms up on the air like a ken doll and hope the ball gets wedged between them somehow.

To his credit he often meets the ball at it's highest point and has had matches where it has come together for him, but I feel it's more luck when he takes a mark than design.

I do like him but for mine he has huge flaws in his game that I'm not sure will just be fixed when he hits a certain amount of games.