Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

[Sedat]

After watching the first 7 rounds of season 2008, it appears as though the role of the key forward has changed, with pace and mobility now equally as important as strength and contested marking ability. Seeing as we don't have a Jonathon Brown style gorilla on our list, I think we have developed a CHF that is at least the equal of the best players in this position in recent season...the only difference is that we have two players combining the role. The Hahn/Murphy tag team duo do everything that the very best key forwards in the competition do: they split packs open, apply enormous pressure to keep the ball in the forward zone, they take contested marks (Hahn), and they also run their direct opponents ragged, taking numerous uncontested marks through speed off the mark and agility (Murphy). They are also applying scoreboard pressure on the opposition, and are not being sucked away to the wings or even half back to chase a kick (both). The reigning pemier doesn't have a superstar key forward, but they similarly possess numerous attacking weapons to be able to cove off all bases up forward.

With the warp speed of the game today, and the supreme fitness of the players making it difficult to find space up forward, is it now too difficult for one player to be able to perform all roles now required in the key forward posts?

EDIT - can the mods change the thread title to 2008

[Dry Rot]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

EDIT - can the mods change the thread title to 2008

Done.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

After watching the first 7 rounds of season 2008, it appears as though the role of the key forward has changed, with pace and mobility now equally as important as strength and contested marking ability. Seeing as we don't have a Jonathon Brown style gorilla on our list, I think we have developed a CHF that is at least the equal of the best players in this position in recent season...the only difference is that we have two players combining the role. The Hahn/Murphy tag team duo do everything that the very best key forwards in the competition do: they split packs open, apply enormous pressure to keep the ball in the forward zone, they take contested marks (Hahn), and they also run their direct opponents ragged, taking numerous uncontested marks through speed off the mark and agility (Murphy). They are also applying scoreboard pressure on the opposition, and are not being sucked away to the wings or even half back to chase a kick (both). The reigning pemier doesn't have a superstar key forward, but they similarly possess numerous attacking weapons to be able to cove off all bases up forward.

With the warp speed of the game today, and the supreme fitness of the players making it difficult to find space up forward, is it now too difficult for one player to be able to perform all roles now required in the key forward posts?

EDIT - can the mods change the thread title to 2008

Pace and mobility is overated, Stewart Lowie, TOny Lockett etc would still be gun forwards in todays competition. Big bodies and strong pack marks are worth gold.

And Cam Mooney might not be a star, but he is a good ChF. Ottens is a dominant tall forward. Even Nathan Ablett could take a good grab. SO..u are right in saying they dont have superstar key forwards, but they do have quality KEY forwards.

And the Murphy/Hahn short roaming CHF will come under pressure when we play sides like Hawthorn/Geelong and our midfielders are under more pressure delivering the ball in to the forward line. Hard to pin point passes in those circumstances

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Yup, both have been incredibly important and our forward line is continually underrated for lack of a gun power forward.

I think you'll like the quote in my sig Sedat.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

I think the best four KPF would be Pavlich, Brown, Riewoldt and Franklin. Pavlich and Riewoldt have bugger all backing them up at the moment (Koschitzke and Gehrig can be damaging but not at all this year so far) but Brown and Franklin have Bradshaw and Roughead respectively, Brisbane and Hawks combo would have to be the best in the AFL imo.

Behind them though you would have to think that Bobby and Mitch are the most dangerous combination. They are so hard to match up on because of their unusual (for KPP) physical attributes and they will bring others into the game aswell as themselves. When you throw an australian captain and a brownlow medallist into the forward mix, who are also below 190cm, the tall opposition key backs become overwhelmed, out of position and exposed.

Lucas and Lloyd would be up there if they could both stay on the park for more than 3 seconds and same goes for Hall and O'Loughlin.

[GVGjr]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

The player that looks like he could become a terrific CHF somewhere down the track is Travis Cloke. He has a poor season in 2008 but 2007 was full of promise. Good size, long kick, runs hard on a lead and he can hold a mark so in a couple of years it will be interesting to see how he develops.

I do believe that the role is changing but there will always be a role for a true sized CHF as long he has mobility and a solid skill base.

[Mantis]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

The player that looks like he could become a terrific CHF somewhere down the track is Travis Cloke. He has a poor season in 2008 but 2007 was full of promise. Good size, long kick, runs hard on a lead and he can hold a mark so in a couple of years it will be interesting to see how he develops.

Josh Kennedy has impressed me in his couple of games with West Coast and I think he will become a pretty good CHF over the next couple of seasons.

[GVGjr]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Josh Kennedy has impressed me in his couple of games with West Coast and I think he will become a pretty good CHF over the next couple of seasons.

His agility is my question mark on him as a CHF. He might need to play in a pocket or as a FF.
He has a good size about him but good CHF's need to be able to lead laterally not just straight up the ground. Early days from Kennedy at the moment and he is one to watch.

[Sedat]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

I think the best four KPF would be Pavlich, Brown, Riewoldt and Franklin. Pavlich and Riewoldt have bugger all backing them up at the moment (Koschitzke and Gehrig can be damaging but not at all this year so far) but Brown and Franklin have Bradshaw and Roughead respectively, Brisbane and Hawks combo would have to be the best in the AFL imo.

Lucas and Lloyd would be up there if they could both stay on the park for more than 3 seconds and same goes for Hall and O'Loughlin.

Most of the combinations you mentioned are more the CHF/FF combos rather than two players roaming the 50m arc. Don't get me wrong, they are all quality players, but only Hahn/Murphy play the role of quasi CHF's - we have the likes of Minson, Welsh and Johnno rotating through the FF post.

The other teams have traditional crumbers and resting midfielders alongside their CHF, but I think only we have the two-pronged CHF set-up - this is obviously out of necessity, but it is working very well and flying under the radar in AFL circles a little bit.

[Sedat]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Pace and mobility is overated, Stewart Lowie, TOny Lockett etc would still be gun forwards in todays competition. Big bodies and strong pack marks are worth gold.

They would not survive in today's game. Opposition defenders would work them over the other way until they blow up. And what does Hahn have exactly if it's not a big body and can't take a strong pack mark? He would be no more than 2-3 cms shorter than both Lockett and Loewe.

Jono Brown is an exceptional footballer, not just because he can take a contested grab but because he has such a big motor that he can work his direct opponent into the ground and also take uncontested marks on the lead. Barry Hall isn't in the same class but does the same thing. Ditto Mooney. While we are at it, substitute Ottens for Minson and you can see exactly who we are trying to emulate with our forward structure. Rocca is an exceptional pack mark but he is getting worked over the other way and blows up after 30 mins as a result.

We don't have Jon Brown, so what we are doing is the next best thing by playing two players with different skill sets on the arc. The results this season bear that out - funny that both Hahn and Murphy were rcovering from a knee and suffered soft tissue/shoulder injuries respectively in 2007 and the arse fell out of our season as a result. Even in 2006, we were flying early and then started losing regularly once Murph and Hahn went down a couple of weeks apart.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

. They would not survive in today's game. Opposition defenders would work them over the other way until they blow up. And what does Hahn have exactly if it's not a big body and can't take a strong pack mark? He would be no more than 2-3 cms shorter than both Lockett and Loewe.

Jono Brown is an exceptional footballer, not just because he can take a contested grab but because he has such a big motor that he can work his direct opponent into the ground and also take uncontested marks on the lead. Barry Hall isn't in the same class but does the same thing. Ditto Mooney. While we are at it, substitute Ottens for Minson and you can see exactly who we are trying to emulate with our forward structure. Rocca is an exceptional pack mark but he is getting worked over the other way and blows up after 30 mins as a result.

We don't have Jon Brown, so what we are doing is the next best thing by playing two players with different skill sets on the arc. The results this season bear that out - funny that both Hahn and Murphy were rcovering from a knee and suffered soft tissue/shoulder injuries respectively in 2007 and the arse fell out of our season as a result. Even in 2006, we were flying early and then started losing regularly once Murph and Hahn went down a couple of weeks apart.

Tony Lockett/stewie lowe wouldnt survive in todays game. I have heard it all now!!!!

Mitch Hahn isnt a pack marking player. Not clean enough to be a 'go to' CHF, he is good hard working flanker.

Dont compare Minson to Ottens. Ottens is twice the player,with a great set of hands and a deadly kick for goal. Minson is an honest battler/ second string ruck.

Rocca is a very good player, and doesnt blow up after 30mins.

I say it again, wait to we get pressure from better sides, watch the small half forward line struggle.

[Sedat]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Tony Lockett/stewie lowe wouldnt survive in todays game. I have heard it all now!!!!

They would get double and triple teamed, have little or no room to move, be unable to assert their influence on the game and would get punished the other way by attacking defenders like Scarlett. It's not Lockett v the full back any more, it's Lockett v 3 defenders at every contest.

Mitch Hahn isnt a pack marking player. Not clean enough to be a 'go to' CHF, he is good hard working flanker.

Hahn has great hands and can take a contested grab. At worst, he creates a spillage - he's very rarely out-marked.

Dont compare Minson to Ottens. Ottens is twice the player,with a great set of hands and a deadly kick for goal. Minson is an honest battler/ second string ruck.

The comparison was structural and therefore relevant - nobody was suggesting that Minson is a better player than Ottens.

Rocca is a very good player, and doesnt blow up after 30mins.

Sorry you're right, it's 15 minutes. Go watch the 2006 Elimination Final again - all it took to render Rocca useless for the entire game was one chase on McMahon from the back pocket to the wing in the 1st quarter. The game has changed - contested marking targets who can't break free of their defensive opponents like Rocca, Gehrig and Whitnall are the past.

I say it again, wait to we get pressure from better sides, watch the small half forward line struggle.

Adelaide and Sydney are two of the best practitioners of defensive football going around. St Kilda is also very defensively oriented in their game plan - 3 out of 3 so far.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Rocca is a very good player, and doesnt blow up after 30mins.

I've thought for a while that you had never seen a game of footy in your life.

Now I am absolutely convinced you've certainly never seen a Collingwood game anyway.

Rocca is second only to Mal Michael for hopeless endurance. Rocca lasts 10 minutes, Michael only lasts 5.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Rocca is second only to Mal Michael for hopeless endurance. Rocca lasts 10 minutes, Michael only lasts 5.

Rocca everytime I see him play I count the minutes to when I see him doubled over gasping for breath and hands on hips. Yes he is a long kick and can kick the goals but gotta agree SS at endurance he really sucks.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Best CHF in the AFL in 2008

Tony Lockett/stewie lowe wouldnt survive in todays game. I have heard it all now!!!!

Mitch Hahn isnt a pack marking player. Not clean enough to be a 'go to' CHF, he is good hard working flanker.

Dont compare Minson to Ottens. Ottens is twice the player,with a great set of hands and a deadly kick for goal. Minson is an honest battler/ second string ruck.

Rocca is a very good player, and doesnt blow up after 30mins.

I say it again, wait to we get pressure from better sides, watch the small half forward line struggle.

1) Are you ever happy with the football club?
2) Do you actually support this football club?
3) Ever posted anything positive?

Nobody can do anything right going by your accord. We're 6-0-1, what more do you want?