Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

[Axe Man]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

At least if Cordy plays forward he is surely a better option to relieve Boyd in the ruck than Dunkley.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I thought Adams showed some real signs forward in the first half against Brisbane. Handy having two tall defenders able to pinch hit forward, although Zaine played more defensive forward than genuine target.

Took a few good grabs which we haven't seen for awhile.

[Doc26]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I thought Adams showed some real signs forward in the first half against Brisbane. Handy having two tall defenders able to pinch hit forward, although Zaine played more defensive forward than genuine target.

Assuming no further injuries down back will be a 'nice' selection dilemma to have when Moz is right.

[Happy Days]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I thought Adams showed some real signs forward in the first half against Brisbane. Handy having two tall defenders able to pinch hit forward, although Zaine played more defensive forward than genuine target.

Gotta disagree there Mof. Thought he looked lost, his only real good passage of play came from a mark that he took from behind trying to spoil. When you consider he was BOG after being thrown back I think we should put him as a forward to bed.

If I have one criticism of Bevo its that he can be prone to vanity projects at times (tall mids in the ruck, Adams forward, playing all 18 guys well ahead of the centre circle in a forward press, and if I'm being honest sticking with Boyd as a lead ruck). I'd prefer us to see the forest for the trees sometimes.

[comrade]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

If I have one criticism of Bevo its that he can be prone to vanity projects at times (tall mids in the ruck, Adams forward, playing all 18 guys well ahead of the centre circle in a forward press, and if I'm being honest sticking with Boyd as a lead ruck). I'd prefer us to see the forest for the trees sometimes.

I love a good controversial hot take but I need to interject here. Adams played forward for 1 half, took 5 marks including numerous ones where he showed good leading patterns and kicked a goal. We seemed overly tall down back so he made a tactical switch. Not sure it was a vanity move. In regards to the ruck situation (Boyd + tall mids), I'm convinced he just doesn't rate old school tap ruckmen that can't do anything but jump at a ruck contest, hence why he would prefer Dunkley, Jong or even Goodes over Minson/Campbell at times. Again, not a vanity stance it's just how he sees the game.

[Ozza]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I love a good controversial hot take but I need to interject here. Adams played forward for 1 half, took 5 marks including numerous ones where he showed good leading patterns and kicked a goal. We seemed overly tall down back so he made a tactical switch. Not sure it was a vanity move.

Agree with this. Although I didn't like the Adams forward move at the time, for the fact that we were struggling in defence - there is no doubt for me that he was playing well early in the game as a forward. With Richmond's lack of forwardline height this week - I expect Adams to be playing forward at some stage.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I'll add my voice to the thought Adams looked promising up forward group. He also kicked through the sticks from a set shot - something we've struggled baaaaadly at.

T Boyd has played his best footy in the ruck - doesn't matter to me what he was recruited for, plans evolve.

[Mofra]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

Gotta disagree there Mof. Thought he looked lost, his only real good passage of play came from a mark that he took from behind trying to spoil. When you consider he was BOG after being thrown back I think we should put him as a forward to bed.

If I have one criticism of Bevo its that he can be prone to vanity projects at times (tall mids in the ruck, Adams forward, playing all 18 guys well ahead of the centre circle in a forward press, and if I'm being honest sticking with Boyd as a lead ruck). I'd prefer us to see the forest for the trees sometimes.

5 marks in a half forward of centre? Been a while since we've had a tall forward manage that.

Who would you put in lead ruck instead of Boyd when Campbell and Roughy are both out of the side? That's not vanity, it's necessity.

[Happy Days]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I love a good controversial hot take but I need to interject here. Adams played forward for 1 half, took 5 marks including numerous ones where he showed good leading patterns and kicked a goal. We seemed overly tall down back so he made a tactical switch. Not sure it was a vanity move.

I honestly think he thought "we'll do this mob easily, lets try some shit" (he was kind of vindicated by the second half to be fair). Adams forward vs Adams back to me is night and day. That goal came from a really neat piece of defensive work from position B in a 1-on-1 contest, and I plainly disagree about the leading patterns. He looked utterly dominant when he went back, and took 5 far more convincing marks in the second half.

Who would you put in lead ruck instead of Boyd when Campbell and Roughy are both out of the side? That's not vanity, it's necessity.

Anyone. Try Cordy or Roberts in there (especially if we're too tall down back). Tape Smith and Dunkley together. As you noted we haven't had a tall forward take 5 marks in a half in ages, yet the one guy who has the capacity to do it consistently and to a high standard is putting an enormous toll on his body to do a task the coach doesn't even rate.

Should mention that I still absolutely love Bevo, and that vanity projects aren't always bad. When you don't try anything you end up with Easton Wood as a replacement level key defender for two years, and Johannisen running around in the twos.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I watched Adams closely when he was playing forward in Q1 as he was right in front of me, and his leading patterns were excellent - better than any of our other forwards by far.

He led hard to space and lead up at the kicker - all things you want when you are bringing the ball down the ground.

Amazed at comments he looked lost - he looked anything but. Unfortunately we needed him down back and we probably needed it 10 minutes before it happened, but I certainly want to see Adams trialled forward at the next opportunity which presents itself.

[Mofra]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

I honestly think he thought "we'll do this mob easily, lets try some shit" (he was kind of vindicated by the second half to be fair). Adams forward vs Adams back to me is night and day. That goal came from a really neat piece of defensive work from position B in a 1-on-1 contest, and I plainly disagree about the leading patterns. He looked utterly dominant when he went back, and took 5 far more convincing marks in the second half.

Anyone. Try Cordy or Roberts in there (especially if we're too tall down back). Tape Smith and Dunkley together. As you noted we haven't had a tall forward take 5 marks in a half in ages, yet the one guy who has the capacity to do it consistently and to a high standard is putting an enormous toll on his body to do a task the coach doesn't even rate.

Should mention that I still absolutely love Bevo, and that vanity projects aren't always bad. When you don't try anything you end up with Easton Wood as a replacement level key defender for two years, and Johannisen running around in the twos.

Have to disagree on both points - we need a tall in the forward half, I dare say Bevo is still scarred by going short against North last year where Stringer was left to compete in the air against three tall defenders and let's be honest - that's not Stringer's value to the side. Marcus looked very good to me, led to the ball which gave us something to kick to. Given Richmond will be shorter in their F50 than Brisbane I doubt we need Roberts, Zaine and Adams all back there tomorrow. I don't recall Tom Boyd ever taking 5 marks in a half - and certainly in the forward half of the ground, noting he's taken one contested mark all season.

Cordy and Roberts are further away from no 1 ruckmen than Boyd is, and Tommy did the job for us last year in the prelim out of necessity. If we trialled Roberts in the ruck thatw oudl be more of a "vanity" show than a 202cm 100kg ruck/forward shouldering more ruck than we'd like him to.

[Mantis]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

Have to disagree on both points - we need a tall in the forward half, I dare say Bevo is still scarred by going short against North last year where Stringer was left to compete in the air against three tall defenders and let's be honest - that's not Stringer's value to the side. Marcus looked very good to me, led to the ball which gave us something to kick to. Given Richmond will be shorter in their F50 than Brisbane I doubt we need Roberts, Zaine and Adams all back there tomorrow. I don't recall Tom Boyd ever taking 5 marks in a half - and certainly in the forward half of the ground, noting he's taken one contested mark all season.

Having no tall forward didn't help last week either... of course we needed to be smarter going forward, and finish off some of our good play, but we resorted to the long bomb and didn't get on the end of any of them, nor did we kill enough contests.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

Having no tall forward didn't help last week either... of course we needed to be smarter going forward, and finish off some of our good play, but we resorted to the long bomb and didn't get on the end of any of them, nor did we kill enough contests.

This is exactly the point. Under Rocket, we had a small forward line, but we were clever with forwards leading out and being hit on the chest. We were top three in scoring goals in 2008 and 2009 with a small forward line. We can't just bomb it in and expect someone to mark it who is just standing still and giving the defenders ample opportunity to just punch the ball away.

[Mantis]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

This is exactly the point. Under Rocket, we had a small forward line, but we were clever with forwards leading out and being hit on the chest. We were top three in scoring goals in 2008 and 2009 with a small forward line. We can't just bomb it in and expect someone to mark it who is just standing still and giving the defenders ample opportunity to just punch the ball away.

One of the reasons why we lost the 2009 PF was because we played bombs away.

[Mofra]

Re: Match Committee - Round 7, 2017 vs Richmond

Having no tall forward didn't help last week either... of course we needed to be smarter going forward, and finish off some of our good play, but we resorted to the long bomb and didn't get on the end of any of them, nor did we kill enough contests.

Yep - a tall who can alternatively lead tot he ball carrier (ie Cloke when he plays higher up the ground) and provide a get out option to avoid the opposition marking our entries helps us no end.
Zaine against WCE in the final last year did his job to stop McGovern marking our entries and it worked well. With Cloke and Redpath out and Boyd in the ruck we need one contest up there.