If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Said something similar. If he nets a huge trade return, and frees up even more cap to recruit multiple key players. It's an interesting thing to think about, ala Hwthorn letting Williams, Kennedy & McGlynn go to get Burgoyne & Gibson, and draft too.

Not going to be as easy to manouver ala Hawks this off season zi suspect. With the new CBA coming into effect we're about to be competing in a potentially hyper-inflated marketplace and coupled with some big names out of contract and clubs with more money to throw around.
JMac and his team need to really use every ounce of their grey matter to work their magic in this environment.
Perhaps one of those options may be to keep our powder relstively dry this season when everyone else goes nuts, sign use our money to further extend core guys like Bont, Macrae, Stringer et al..to even longer deals and stave off any raids on them down the track.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Not going to be as easy to manouver ala Hawks this off season zi suspect. With the new CBA coming into effect we're about to be competing in a potentially hyper-inflated marketplace and coupled with some big names out of contract and clubs with more money to throw around.
JMac and his team need to really use every ounce of their grey matter to work their magic in this environment.
Perhaps one of those options may be to keep our powder relstively dry this season when everyone else goes nuts, sign use our money to further extend core guys like Bont, Macrae, Stringer et al..to even longer deals and stave off any raids on them down the track.

It's an interesting philosophical question. I'm of the view that if we can improve in 2018, as a team and as individual players, with the addition of two or three very good players, we can win the premiership in 2018. I think sitting the trade/FA period out, and going into a shallow draft may limit us winning it in 2018 and possibly even longer. So I see this is a pivotal period, so I'm in the go all out and get elite, mature talent on pricy, but responsible offers.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Duplicate.

[westdog54]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

If JJ's manager had a clue what he was doing, he'd have worked out the following today:

The new EB has eliminated 'Restricted Free Agency'.

This means that in two seasons time, JJ can walk to whoever he likes for whatever he likes, without the messy detail of having to work out a trade.

When that day comes he will make his client and himself an absolute truck load of money.

He should be encouraging JJ to stay on for the two years and then auction his services in two years time.

What is happening at the moment is helping no one.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

If JJ's manager had a clue what he was doing, he'd have worked out the following today:

The new EB has eliminated 'Restricted Free Agency'.

This means that in two seasons time, JJ can walk to whoever he likes for whatever he likes, without the messy detail of having to work out a trade.

When that day comes he will make his client and himself an absolute truck load of money.

He should be encouraging JJ to stay on for the two years and then auction his services in two years time.

What is happening at the moment is helping no one.

If you keep using facts and logic, people will start to think this manager is not any good and ask why the hell JJ is listening to him. Pfft... With your facts and logic.

[Dry Rot]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

The new EB has eliminated 'Restricted Free Agency'.

Interesting. What has changed?

[Bornadog]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Can we deal with GWS for Josh Kelly and they can have JJ?  BT what do we need to do here?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Can we deal with GWS for Josh Kelly and they can have JJ? *!BT what do we need to do here?

GWS said for two years they wanted Wolters from Freo. The bones would be JJ, Kelly & Wolters as three very good players. I'm sure all three clubs would make good cash offers to the players. But then there'd have to be more to make it happen.

Alternatively, we take Nat Fyfe. Freo get pick 7 compo. We trade JJ for a player and upgrade from pick 12 to pick 7 (& 30 into 25) Then trade GWS pick 7 & 25 for Kelly. Pick 40 or so from North can get thrown in to make life easier if needed.

My guess is we could have up to $2,500,000 if JJ quits. That'll cover paying Fyfe & Kelly, and a free agent KPD. Just a small draft presence which sounds likely anyway.

[Bornadog]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

GWS said for two years they wanted Wolters from Freo. The bones would be JJ, Kelly & Wolters as three very good players. I'm sure all three clubs would make good cash offers to the players. But then there'd have to be more to make it happen.

Alternatively, we take Nat Fyfe. Freo get pick 7 compo. We trade JJ for a player and upgrade from pick 12 to pick 7 (& 30 into 25) Then trade GWS pick 7 & 25 for Kelly. Pick 40 or so from North can get thrown in to make life easier if needed.

My guess is we could have up to $2,500,000 if JJ quits. That'll cover paying Fyfe & Kelly, and a free agent KPD. Just a small draft presence which sounds likely anyway.

ok make it happen

[josie]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Hi BT, Understood how we can get Kelly and that we can afford Kelly and Fyfe. How do we get Fyfe?

Amazing if we could have both and I would be prepared to lose JJ. Would we be endangering our ability to pay our A graders enough in coming few years?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

ok make it happen

JJ's Perth based manager can make it happen... I'm sure he's a new Jerry McGuire revolutionary who can negotiate JJ into Freo and then try to help facilitate Dogs and Freo working the Free Agency deal. Then we just go to GWS with 7 & 25.

I still want JJ to stay, make no mistake. But if he quits he can get us upgraded into a top 10 pick (and a player) then it opens up top end player trading and a bigger salary cap spend again. JMac could turn the negative of him leaving into a massive positive, if the cards fall that way.

[Dry Rot]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

JJ's Perth based manager can make it happen... I'm sure he's a new Jerry McGuire revolutionary who can negotiate JJ into Freo and then try to help facilitate Dogs and Freo working the Free Agency deal. Then we just go to GWS with 7 & 25.

I still want JJ to stay, make no mistake. But if he quits he can get us upgraded into a top 10 pick (and a player) then it opens up top end player trading and a bigger salary cap spend again. JMac could turn the negative of him leaving into a massive positive, if the cards fall that way.

I have no idea what JJ will do but if JJ does leave, I can't see us getting any more than a first rounder for him.

So if he did leave and went west, we'd be hoping he went to Freo and we'd get their say Pick 8. We'll probably finish bottom 6 the way we are going, so the best case scenario would be that we have say picks 6 (Dogs) and 8 (Freo JJ trade).

What is the best use we can put picks 6 and 8 to?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

Hi BT, Understood how we can get Kelly and that we can afford Kelly and Fyfe. How do we get Fyfe?

Amazing if we could have both and I would be prepared to lose JJ. Would we be endangering our ability to pay our A graders enough in coming few years?

Fyfe is a free agent. He will have half a dozen or more clubs offering him over a million dollars a year. If we were in the group and we were prepared to pay him probably $1,200,000 a year for 5 years, and he accepted he could come to us. Fremantle would be compensated from the AFL, which would be a first round selection. If they finish with pick 6, their compensation would be pick 7 from the AFL. So it doesn't cost us anything other than cash.

As for affordability, the following is my guess work. Dalrymple confirmed that the Hurley cash is still about. That was rumoured by the media to be $800,000. The reported JJ number from us is about $600,000 ($1,400,000). Crameri's contract will be at least $150,000 lighter ($1,550,000). Then we move on/retire Boyd, Bob, Campbell, Honey, Hamilton $1,050,000 ($2,600,000 cap space). Take off Fyfe $1,200,000 & Kelly $800,000 ($2,000,000), a KPD free agent $600,000 ($2,600,000 cap used).

Then we have to recruit three draftees, so that takes us over. But that's then covered by a 20% rise in the salary cap, not all of which is surplus. Anything above and beyond that goes into resigning our 2018 guns like Stringer & Macrae. There are incremental increases in the CBA which should assist is making sure Bonts and others get the big bucks in 2019 and beyond (plus they'll be other retirements too like Morris, Cloke, Picken etc).

Peter Gordon said something recently along the lines of the new CBA and salary cap will see a lot more player movements. I'm not saying this will happen for us this year, but with free agency and the potential war chest of salary cap we would have if JJ quit, we could really think big.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

I have no idea what JJ will do but if JJ does leave, I can't see us getting any more than a first rounder for him.

So if he did leave and went west, we'd be hoping he went to Freo and we'd get their say Pick 8. We'll probably finish bottom 6 the way we are going, so the best case scenario would be that we have say picks 6 (Dogs) and 8 (Freo JJ trade).

What is the best use we can put picks 6 and 8 to?

We are on the same line, but my assumptions on draft order were different. I was working of us in pick 12, getting a decent player like a Crozier or other, and then upgrading first and second rounders. If we finish below, then the outright pick option is probably best as you say.

I'm in the line of thinking that says let's launch an attack on the premiership in 2018. JJ leaving opens up a shitload of cap, so let's target a couple of elite mids and a KPD. In FA there's maybe Fyfe & Rockliff (and some KPDs), at trades there's maybe Kelly & May with old rumours of Ablett. JMac has done well to lock almost all the important ones away already this year, to limit exposure to the feeding frenzy. Imagine being JMac with the talent up for grabs, good picks to trade and a couple of million to go fishing with. Hopefully JJ stays, but the more I explore what we could do, the more I think that if we do it right, it could take us back to contending next year bigly.

[Dry Rot]

Re: If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

We are on the same line, but my assumptions on draft order were different. I was working of us in pick 12, getting a decent player like a Crozier or other, and then upgrading first and second rounders. If we finish below, then the outright pick option is probably best as you say.

I'm in the line of thinking that says let's launch an attack on the premiership in 2018. JJ leaving opens up a shitload of cap, so let's target a couple of elite mids and a KPD. In FA there's maybe Fyfe & Rockliff (and some KPDs), at trades there's maybe Kelly & May with old rumours of Ablett. JMac has done well to lock almost all the important ones away already this year, to limit exposure to the feeding frenzy. Imagine being JMac with the talent up for grabs, good picks to trade and a couple of million to go fishing with. Hopefully JJ stays, but the more I explore what we could do, the more I think that if we do it right, it could take us back to contending next year bigly.

I like your thinking, but I query aiming for a flag in 2018.

My best guess is that we snagged one well ahead of time (one step forward). A fair Giants fan on BF put it "You captured lightning in a bottle in 2016" and I think he is right.

Now we are about to leave to lose more than half our back line (Morris, Boyd, Murphy and possibly JJ) (two steps back); we lack speed and polish in the midfield; we have no forward line - Dickson, Cloke and Redpath are cooked, Stringer should go in the midfield.

We need to fill a lot of holes IMO.