Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

[bulldogtragic]

Howdy folks, we have three nominated ruckman for the Team of The Century. We have two spots, or one, or three, depending on the arguments of how many you want in the team. Assuming it's two spots, those who want to be part of this initial A32 have the following to choose from:

Luke Darcy
Will Minson
Jordan Roughead

One starting ruckman.
One interchange ruckman.
One to miss.

As per A32 rules, when a retired player is culled from the squad that's it for them. A current player can miss, but be nominated again for an A32.

I've got to say they're three very different types, all with differing strengthens, weaknesses and arguments for and against.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

First off, Luke Darcy in his prime was a gun. Not close to a gun, a gun. Tap ruckman, mobile, moved well and was very handy up forward. Unfortunately his knee injuries crueled him, but on best ruckman in the group thus far he simply picks himself, then does media to talk about how good of a pick that was.

Now the harder stuff starts. Minson played about 190 games to Roughies 114 or so. Roughy played those seasons in defence so that's less ruck time, but a fair chunk of Minno's ruck time wasn't superb. Roughie hasn't hit AA yet, whereas Minno's AA year was as much guts as shear dominance in the ruck department. So if my selection was based solely on rucking and winning hit outs, then Minno is starting ruck and Darcy starts on the pine, with Roughie to be nominated again later...

However, the current thinking in the media and certainly around our club and predicting the future, a tap and contest ruckman who doesn't move well, present around the ground, take contested marks and impact forward or in Defence probably doesn't make it. But Minno was a brilliant clubman, a heart and soul player, a guy who flew the flag for his teammates and at his best, albeit briefly, was All Australian.

Roughy too has strong leadership and served as a vice captain and early on in the leadership department. He was a gun underage ruckman, who when asked to play defence went back there and gave it his all. A new coach has breathed life into him again and his time under Bevo has been remarkable in consideration of where he was under McCartney. He's the new prototype ruckman that goes for the tap and contests hard, but moves around the ground with a great ability to provide contested marks (averaging twice Minno for average for Contested Marking). None better than his big contested grab in the Grand Final after JJs goal was wrongly reversed. That mark to me was the most important thing in those minutes prior to the Morris tackle and Boyd goal. He averages 4 marks a game to Minno's 2.49 with about the same disposals. Roughie can also drop forward and kick goals (inaccurate over his career), or like the EF against WCE at West Coast in 2016 take a run and take long range 50m goal to ram the advantage home. His neater with disposal compared to Minno with a 1.6 a game to 2.6 a game Clanger average between them. Off field his work with coaching Women's footy, support for our AFLW team and significant work with charities is a wonderful aspect to what is a top notch human, not just a top notch footballer.

So in the balance of weighing up time rucking, Minno has Roughie covered. In terms of top notch rucking, the gap really narrows. But I really want a flexible squad rolling along. Looking at the A32 woofers went with, we went a little smaller but we always have the God who is Chris Grant to drop into defence in a hypothetical game. With Darcy to still be a long tall target, a dangerous one at it. Or with Roughy, Darcy can go forward to create a dangerous tall attack or drop back to leave Chris Grant at CHF. So balancing out the reasoning, I want two ruckman or ruck capable players personally and no more. So for me, I have to pick two rucks and whilst I think Tom Boyd and Tim English are really going to shake things up over the next decade, for the squad of 22 of eligible rucks, I think flexibility is crucial and not to diminish what Minno gave to our great club:

Starting Ruck: Luke Darcy
Interchange: Jordan Roughed (with Ryan Hargrve currently)

[boydogs]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

Darcy was the best ruck in the comp for a couple of years and one of our few stars in the Rhode era. He was very good for many years. Minson was more of a late bloomer and one trick pony, he always struggled to be a force resting forward and the end came quickly for him as the game evolved beyond his strengths. He was a warrior for the club who competed hard all day, but Darcy was on another level

Roughead taking Minson's spot in 2015 may seem a direct answer as to which player was better, but they were at opposite ends of their careers, and under another coach and gameplan it may have gone the other way. Minson's best exceeded anything Roughead has yet produced IMO. However two specialist rucks in the side is not best for team balance with the way the game is now played. It's really either Minson alone, or Darcy + Roughead, and I think the latter offers more to the team overall

Starting ruck: Luke Darcy
Interchange: Jordan Roughead

[always right]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

Darcy picks himself but the Minno v Roughy comparison is a difficult one as they each had very different attributes.

Minno was all aggression, a beast at centre bounces and clearances who used his powerful frame as a battering ram. His AA year was great reward and our midfielders benefitted from his dominance. His kicking was under-rated as despite an ungainly kicking action, he rarely missed a target under 40 meters. He was also a solid kick for goal although never really presented himself as a forward option due to his inability to consistently mark the ball overhead in contested situations. It actually resulted in the coaching team instructing him to bring the ball to ground rather than being outmarked by the defenders, something he did quite effectively. His willingness to go in to bat for teammates made him a favourite of fans although his aggression was often misplaced as he gave away many unnecessary free kicks, particularly with his signature move......laying on top of opposition players flopping about like a whale on heat.

Roughy the ruckman can only really be assessed in the last couple of years since being moved out of defence. Bad luck with injuries has also prevented him from showing his rucking wares over an extended period. What he has shown in recent times is dramatic improvement in particular areas of his game. His marking especially has become a real strength with him flying confidently to provide a target around the ground, up forward and in support of his defenders. It is his major point of difference to Minno. As a tap ruckman, he has been effective in nullifying key big men from the opposition, including Gawn and Goldstein. A good leap at centre bounces and deceptively strong at boundary throw-ins, he has unfortunately been let down by his body which is undersized for a ruckman. His kicking in general is adequate but his goalkicking is poor, lacking penetration and almost always slicing away from the goals. It needs to improve. Like Minno, he has shown great leadership and cares for his team mates. He is of course a premiership ruckman.

At this point in time, I lean towards Minno as the more accomplished ruckman over his career, however I feel like I will reach a different conclusion within the next couple of years.

[Twodogs]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

They changed the rules to curb Darcy's influence. Only the very best players have that happen.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

They changed the rules to curb Darcy's influence. Only the very best players have that happen.

Certainly a sign of dominance.

How good was it when Darcy just took clean possession from the ruck.

They have changed the rules for rucks over time to try to make it favour bigger guys and eliminate the clever positioning that was a strength of Luke Darcy.

[Bornadog]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

Certainly a sign of dominance.

How good was it when Darcy just took clean possession from the ruck.

They have changed the rules for rucks over time to try to make it favour bigger guys and eliminate the clever positioning that was a strength of Luke Darcy.

Yep, another stupid rule change. I couldn't see any problems with the way it was. The 3rd man up may not have been a so called issue if the rule didn't change.

[Twodogs]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

Certainly a sign of dominance.

How good was it when Darcy just took clean possession from the ruck.

They have changed the rules for rucks over time to try to make it favour bigger guys and eliminate the clever positioning that was a strength of Luke Darcy.

I still don't understand what was wrong with taking the ball out of the ruck contest. They amended the prior opportunity component to say as soon as a player grabs it out of the ruck contest he can be tackled.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Team of The Century: Article 32: Ruckmen

I still don't understand what was wrong with taking the ball out of the ruck contest. They amended the prior opportunity component to say as soon as a player grabs it out of the ruck contest he can be tackled.

A reactive decision because Darcy was so good at it.

This led to more use of third man up and now they ban that completely.

Allegedly they want to minimise congestion and stoppages, but the combination of these 2 changes, has eliminated a lot of opportunity to clear the area of a stoppage.