Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

[GVGjr]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

I maintain that this year is the price we paid for last year's heroics. No team has won from 7th before, which means that we played 4 cut-throat finals with many players playing with injuries that should have seen them iced and in for surgury a lot earlier than they did. The post season op list was enormous - meaning delayed pre-seasons etc. You add to this the fact that the group remains young and won the flag 2 years earlier than the age profile says they should.

In any other year 15 wins would have had us top 4 and dropping a game late in the season stopped us from having 16 wins.
7th rated us poorly, we were certainly a top 4 side or at worst a top 5 side. 7th was just a number.
I don't agree if you are implying we sort of fluked it from 7th. whatever way I look at it we should not have dropped like we have.

The post season is another matter, hopefully lessons have been learned.

[GVGjr]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Whats Gilbee up to now days ?
Surely the club could slot him in as kicking coach.

Ironically I wouldn't think the Saints are a great kicking side.

[hujsh]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

In any other year 15 wins would have had us top 4 and dropping a game late in the season stopped us from having 16 wins.
7th rated us poorly, we were certainly a top 4 side or at worst a top 5 side. 7th was just a number.
I don't agree if you are implying we sort of fluked it from 7th. whatever way I look at it we should not have dropped like we have.

The post season is another matter, hopefully lessons have been learned.

I don't think that was the implication. More that the consequence of finishing 7th was that there was no room for error and we were always at a disadvantage and this meant guys were playing injured who otherwise would have been prepping for a proper pre-season.

[Doc26]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

I find it interesting that Hawthorn, under Clarkson, continues to pride itself on identifying and building its game style on high efficiency disposal, and yet Bevo, who somewhat cut his teeth there, has not yet been able to implement, or be seen to be prioritising this approach at the Bulldogs during his 3 years at the helm; with the success we had in 2016 built largely off a manic, high pressure style - which would now appear not sustainable. Fortunately we shopped early and took the prize.

Bevo would know Clarkson's development approach, and system extremely well, so what does this tell us?

a. He hasn't got the right group of players (as yet) to deliver this style of high efficiency game; Recruitment / list management issue and Bevo needs more time to build the list.
b. He hasn't got the necessary support behind him in his coaching group to develop, and instigate it; Development issue.
c. He doesn't rate Clarkson's methodology over the manic, high pressure at the contest approach that we were successful with last season but has fallen short with this season (Highly unlikely).
d. Clarkson and Graham Wright are simply so brilliant at identifying such talent, and then to develop it consistently over so many years, that they are peerless.
e. Or a mixture of the above

For mine it is primarily 'A', much of which Bevo has inherited, with numerous culprits such as Dahlhaus, Hunter, Wallis, Smith, Jong, Picken, Honeychurch and Macrae to name a few. MBoyd gets off. Whilst Macrae, Dahlhaus, Hunter and Picken bring other solid attributes, their kicking disposal, particularly under pressure entering the forward 50, is sub standard and not what we would expect from a Clarkson lead starting 22. Fortunately, it appears like the tide has started to turn with more promising ball users entering our midst in Dale, McLean, Daniel, Williams, Young, Lipinski, English and even young Roarke.

Moving forward, we cannot continue to carry so many poor users. 2016 was sublime but it is now long gone. Yes, invest in better coaches and programs to bring some positive effect to lift our kicking efficiency but we should be open to moving on 2 of those perennial poor users, whether with or without currency, to either draft or trade up for a higher level of kicking efficiency. Of the list above only Macrae gets a pass given his upside in so many other facets, and possibly Hunter who I'm hoping may yet gain from some better development.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

In any other year 15 wins would have had us top 4 and dropping a game late in the season stopped us from having 16 wins.
7th rated us poorly, we were certainly a top 4 side or at worst a top 5 side. 7th was just a number.
I don't agree if you are implying we sort of fluked it from 7th. whatever way I look at it we should not have dropped like we have.

The post season is another matter, hopefully lessons have been learned.

Not fluking it, but it was a mighty, mighty effort - 4 cut throat games; 2 interstate. In 2016 the gap between the top 8 and the rest was large - in 2017 its not - the teams ranked 14 through 9 have improved. Essendon has a full compliment of players. We may well have been a top 4 side in 2016 who were unlucky to finish in 7th, but there have been many teams who should have been top 4 that finished outside of this and still couldn't do what our guys did - we peaked physically and mentally at the right time and rode a wave.

To me you look at 2016 as a whole - and for much of he season we were pushing hard. We rode a lot of emotion and physically extracted about as much as we possibly good. Not much was left on the park at the end. I am not surprised we have tailed off this year - we simply couldn't with the same group of players expect to repeat last years efforts on less preseason.

Missing the finals will from a group perspective be the best thing that happens to these guys - it will prove its not easy - it wont just happen.

[GVGjr]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Not fluking it, but it was a mighty, mighty effort - 4 cut throat games; 2 interstate. In 2016 the gap between the top 8 and the rest was large - in 2017 its not - the teams ranked 14 through 9 have improved. Essendon has a full compliment of players. We may well have been a top 4 side in 2016 who were unlucky to finish in 7th, but there have been many teams who should have been top 4 that finished outside of this and still couldn't do what our guys did - we peaked physically and mentally at the right time and rode a wave.

To me you look at 2016 as a whole - and for much of he season we were pushing hard. We rode a lot of emotion and physically extracted about as much as we possibly good. Not much was left on the park at the end. I am not surprised we have tailed off this year - we simply couldn't with the same group of players expect to repeat last years efforts on less preseason.

Missing the finals will from a group perspective be the best thing that happens to these guys - it will prove its not easy - it wont just happen.

I don't accept the premise that we worked hard and rode emotion in 2016 and had nothing left in the tank. If anything it should have been a spur for the players that didn't make the GF team and it should have inspired those premiership players to go as hard as they could again. I fully accept that going back to back is a difficult and rare occurrence but we should have been significantly more competitive this year.

In 2016 we were a very good team that peaked in the finals series and in 2017 we just struggled for the vast majority of it.
We now need to work out if we can get more out of the players we have for 2018 or if we need to trade to fill a few holes.

[KT31]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Saints assistant

Cheers BAD, do you know if he is contracted or obtainable ?

[Mofra]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Williams worries me. I don't think his decision making is all that good. Its not instinctive. Happy to give him time though as he is still young. Personally I would prefer Webb in his role - better kick, good mark and makes better decisions.

I'm worried about Webb - doesn't seem to find the ball around the ground as well and he certainly isn't quick.
We may bite the bullet and give him a full pre-season off the HB line but it's difficult as he's shown he can dominate in the centre at VFL level but has shown virtually nothing in the middle at AFL level.

[Mofra]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Cheers BAD, do you know if he is contracted or obtainable ?

Sandringham senior coach - pretty sure he has one more year on his contract

[Bornadog]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Sandringham senior coach - pretty sure he has one more year on his contract

Isn't Sandringham also aligned to the Saints?

[always right]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Williams worries me. I don't think his decision making is all that good. Its not instinctive. Happy to give him time though as he is still young. Personally I would prefer Webb in his role - better kick, good mark and makes better decisions.

Clay.....3 knee reco's means that he is an injury away from finishing up. I don't think we will delist him, but with list space becoming an ever more prescious commodity another season like this and I think he will be moved on.
Agree - re poor season. Talk of a major cull is nonsence. Maybe if the 2015/6 draftees had stepped up to dominate, but they haven't

Disagree that Williams and Collins should be seen as vulnerable. I can see Williams following the Toby McLean path into the midfield and Collins appears to be suffering from the meteoric rise of Lewis Young as if Young's rise is somehow the norm. Collins has another two years IMO before we should start judging him.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Isn't Sandringham also aligned to the Saints?

Yep they are.

[always right]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Seems we are a long way off being a destination club.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-21/exclusive-dogs-told-theyre-out-of-jake-lever-hunt

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Seems we are a long way off being a destination club.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-2...ake-lever-hunt

When we won the flag and couldn't attract anyone of note, I knew we weren't a destination club.

Disappointing.

[Bornadog]

Re: Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

Seems we are a long way off being a destination club.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-2...ake-lever-hunt

Well if that is how he feels he can get stuffed.