Your biggest POSITIONAL concern heading into 2025 is:

[Rusty12]

Why don't we have three or more flags in the last decade? It's because we have been belted in the middle in crucial games.

I think that is oversimplifying things in so many ways.
3/4 of the teams and their supporters could probably make the same argument and just demand 2 to 3 Flags and blame it on a few players or a group.
They are hard to win, and most teams are trying to win them.

Do we completely disregard the play of the inside mid group in 2021, that helped get the team to the GF?

2021 GF, Trelor and Bont were the no 2 and 3 players on the ground; they played unbelievably.
Libba was more than serviceable in that game.
9 Dogs in that game failed to have any impact; I would start there. Of those, English, Weightman and VDM are still on the list.

[LongWait]

We've also had poor defensive and forward structure and cobbled together personnel a lot of the time.

That's true, but this thread is about what one player/position we need most. I've nominated the one thing that stands out to me as our biggest deficit player-wise.

[LongWait]

I think that is oversimplifying things in so many ways.
3/4 of the teams and their supporters could probably make the same argument and just demand 2 to 3 Flags and blame it on a few players or a group.
They are hard to win, and most teams are trying to win them.

Do we completely disregard the play of the inside mid group in 2021, that helped get the team to the GF?

2021 GF, Trelor and Bont were the no 2 and 3 players on the ground; they played unbelievably.
Libba was more than serviceable in that game.
9 Dogs in that game failed to have any impact; I would start there. Of those, English, Weightman and VDM are still on the list.

The 21 Grand Final was lost in the middle in the second half. Melbourne walked the ball out and we were simply powerless to stop them. Sure there were a fair number of poor players, but losing the centre clearances is a huge problem for us in big games,

[jeemak]

The 21 Grand Final was lost in the middle in the second half. Melbourne walked the ball out and we were simply powerless to stop them. Sure there were a fair number of poor players, but losing the centre clearances is a huge problem for us in big games,

Feel we gave it our all for two and a half quarters and were highly fatigued versus our opponent (our path to the GF was only of our doing - but the conditions were severe). After an intercepted handball at half back, a couple of centre bounce losses where we were too aggressive, the bundle completely dropped. The same midfield got us across the line against the Lions two weeks before in a hard and tight game, and walked all over Port Adelaide.

So I don't think our midfield is soft, but feel it could do with a change in mindset sometimes when things aren't going our way, rather than doubling down and always going for broke. Reckon we've tried to address this in recent times, with the outcome of that being our ability to win second and third possession in the middle last year.

[LongWait]

Feel we gave it our all for two and a half quarters and were highly fatigued versus our opponent (our path to the GF was only of our doing - but the conditions were severe). After an intercepted handball at half back, a couple of centre bounce losses where we were too aggressive, the bundle completely dropped. The same midfield got us across the line against the Lions two weeks before in a hard and tight game, and walked all over Port Adelaide.

So I don't think our midfield is soft, but feel it could do with a change in mindset sometimes when things aren't going our way, rather than doubling down and always going for broke. Reckon we've tried to address this in recent times, with the outcome of that being our ability to win second and third possession in the middle last year.

We were belted by Hawthorn in the middle during the 2024 H&A season and then in the Elimination Final. We were belted by Melbourne in the first game of the 2024 season. I think we can't match the physical. aggressive midfields when the whips are cracking. I won't labour the point anymore.

[jeemak]

We were belted by Hawthorn in the middle during the 2024 H&A season and then in the Elimination Final. We were belted by Melbourne in the first game of the 2024 season. I think we can't match the physical. aggressive midfields when the whips are cracking. I won't labour the point anymore.

I have some of the same concerns as you, believe me, I just think it's mindset as much as anything else as well as a heavy reliance on the same few when we should be mixing things up when things aren't going well.

How would for instance, Treloar and Libba respond to being given a lighter role in our rotations and playing the high half forward/ rotating mid instead of being the big bananas if they weren't physical and committed (or defensive or whatever) enough early in a game? We don't make the moves, they stay comfortable without getting a kick up the arse or seeing someone else being given a crack at it and possibly showing them the way.

These guys are players who have shown they can compete against anyone. Sometimes the stick isn't a bad incentive.

But back to your point, we have Plan A in Sanders to replace Treloar, the Libba role is something we either redefine or scour the trade market for an experienced player to step into. Not sure Garcia, West or anyone else on the list are capable of permanently filling the breach in the short term.

[Uninformed]

You can't abstain from voting here in WOOFland

You are a little more considerate than our revered governments.

[Uninformed]

I agree with this. We lost the territory battle against Hawthorn which didn’t happen often last year. I felt the accumulator out for a guy that can impact at half forward but also provide grunt inside when needed was acknowledging that.

It’s a tricky one to address when the 4-5 guys going through the midfield are notionally in our best 8-10 players and were largely responsible for getting us there in the first place. Did they just have a bad night?

I never liked the midfield match up against the hawks. Their smaller guys have a habit of getting inside us and have caused up problems in 2 of the last 3 games.

Is there a solution to the bolded bit?
Our guys are good and could be the best in the comp. but got spanked by Hawthorn and Port, yet were better than Brisbane and Sydney.
Solve the occasional midfield failures and we won't lose many. Will Matt Kennedy help fix it do you think?

[Mantis]

But back to your point, we have Plan A in Sanders to replace Treloar, the Libba role is something we either redefine or scour the trade market for an experienced player to step into. Not sure Garcia, West or anyone else on the list are capable of permanently filling the breach in the short term.

I’m happy to go on record in saying we would be a more rounded team if Garcia replaced Treloar or Libba as a 1st choice mid.

Both are brilliant ball winners, but neither have leg speed to attack or defend and I don’t feel we can play them both.

[Willow18]

I’m happy to go on record in saying we would be a more rounded team if Garcia replaced Treloar or Libba as a 1st choice mid.

Both are brilliant ball winners, but neither have leg speed to attack or defend and I don’t feel we can play them both.

I think Libba needs to transition into the 2nd unit and nearly only with other mids who are fast or more defensive.

Cats use to have 1 mid solely trying to win the clearance and all others sitting outside the contest. Would love to see Libba doing something like that.

[mjp]

I’m happy to go on record in saying we would be a more rounded team if Garcia replaced Treloar or Libba as a 1st choice mid.

Both are brilliant ball winners, but neither have leg speed to attack or defend and I don’t feel we can play them both.

You don't think we can play them both in the same side??

Treloar was unbelievable last year and our best player more often than not (particularly in first quarters)...if he's playing like that he HAS to play...

Are you suggesting we shoot Bambi? Because if the MC 'manage' Liber the way they 'managed' Jack Macrae, they had better well win or the supporters will burn the club to the ground...some players just 'mean' more to supporters and Liber is that player for our club right now.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong - except for any part suggesting Treloar wasn't amazing at football in 2024.

[Mantis]

You don't think we can play them both in the same side??

Treloar was unbelievable last year and our best player more often than not (particularly in first quarters)...if he's playing like that he HAS to play...

Are you suggesting we shoot Bambi? Because if the MC 'manage' Liber the way they 'managed' Jack Macrae, they had better well win or the supporters will burn the club to the ground...some players just 'mean' more to supporters and Liber is that player for our club right now.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong - except for any part suggesting Treloar wasn't amazing at football in 2024.

Where does the improvement come in our midfield if the core group is once again is Bont. Libba and Treloar? The Haw EF loss was the last straw for me in watching these 3 get pulled apart by a team with more leg speed... something needs to change.

I fully understand the sentiment involved with such decorated players; however the game stops for no one and if we are to improve from a 6-10 team to a top 4 team, I can't see it happening with the same midfield group we've rolled out for the 3-4 years... Richards needs to become a 1st choice mid and we need to add 1-2 more to the mix, and preferably one's with pace.

[Stevo]

I’m happy to go on record in saying we would be a more rounded team if Garcia replaced Treloar or Libba as a 1st choice mid.

Both are brilliant ball winners, but neither have leg speed to attack or defend and I don’t feel we can play them both.

Are you more or less saying we can't play both in the centre square at the same time? If so it makes a lot of sense but we would then need to find them some other roles where they could contribute.
From the training reports even if both Treloar and Libba didn't play a lot we still have Kennedy, Richards, Garcia and Sanders to help Bont.

[Go_Dogs]

I know we’re diverting the topic, so apologies… but if we look at how our midfield sets up at CBA, do we do something like:

Bont and Richards - always at least one of them
Treloar and Libba - always at least one of them
Sanders/Garcia/Kennedy - one of them at least 50% of the time

And then have a few others like Weightman, West, Fridge, Williams who can take a turn in there when required?

We then need to find others roles for players when they aren’t inside. One can play high half forward (Richards, Sanders, Kennedy?) a couple could play deep forward as marking targets (Bont, Kennedy) or small forward (Garcia, Libba maybe?), or rotate through half back (Richards, Treloar). Other magnets then need to move accordingly to facilitate this and we can’t end up with a net loss in our other parts of the ground that exceeds any net gain in the middle.

it’s a tough exercise to manage as we need to change: more rotations and looks, development opportunities, career longevity and team balance.

I’m a hack. Take it for what it is.

[Sedat]

I think that is oversimplifying things in so many ways.
3/4 of the teams and their supporters could probably make the same argument and just demand 2 to 3 Flags and blame it on a few players or a group.
They are hard to win, and most teams are trying to win them.

Do we completely disregard the play of the inside mid group in 2021, that helped get the team to the GF?

2021 GF, Trelor and Bont were the no 2 and 3 players on the ground; they played unbelievably.
Libba was more than serviceable in that game.
9 Dogs in that game failed to have any impact; I would start there. Of those, English, Weightman and VDM are still on the list.

It's a good question, but it can be countered by asking if we should discount the last 38 minutes of that season where out of nowhere we shamefully conceded 16.4.100 to 1.1.7, much of which was directly from centre clearances where our rucks were hopelessly non-competitive and our mids were ridiculously aggressive with their set-ups to the point of arrogance and disrespect at the quality of the opposition midfield. Treloar and Bont were amazing for 2.5 qtrs but they were as culpable as anyone for the capitulation, Libba as well.

In big games since 2021, our experienced core of mids still have a consistent problem working hard defensively and structuring up with defensive cover to prevent opposition mids getting clean clearances. And our rucks continue to lack the physicality required to be competitive at stoppages in these big games. As problems and impediments to team success go, nothing else really comes close - when we lose, we lose the same way.