Your biggest POSITIONAL concern heading into 2025 is:

[Uninformed]

It's a good question, but it can be countered by asking if we should discount the last 38 minutes of that season where out of nowhere we shamefully conceded 16.4.100 to 1.1.7, much of which was directly from centre clearances where our rucks were hopelessly non-competitive and our mids were ridiculously aggressive with their set-ups to the point of arrogance and disrespect at the quality of the opposition midfield. Treloar and Bont were amazing for 2.5 qtrs but they were as culpable as anyone for the capitulation, Libba as well.

In big games since 2021, our experienced core of mids still have a consistent problem working hard defensively and structuring up with defensive cover to prevent opposition mids getting clean clearances. And our rucks continue to lack the physicality required to be competitive at stoppages in these big games. As problems and impediments to team success go, nothing else really comes close - when we lose, we lose the same way.

The bold bit seems the closest I have seen to an explanation for our failures. Particularly the Hawks and Port, but even back to the Melbourne GF in 21. Is it as simple as fixing that do you think? Cos. my next question then is how to fix it?

[Funke disco]

Ruck, when English is off our whole team struggles.

[Danny Delre]

Ruck, hopefully Timmy has a cracking season.

Juh, potentially going to miss the start of the season.

[NAUGHTY100]

Now the first Intra-club is done (we WON! Yah!!) what would you say your #1 biggest positional concern going into 2025 is?

Ruck? (AKA 'I don't trust Tim when the heat is on')
Small forward? (I mean, we have guys who play there. I guess.)
Lock down small defender? (AKA the "If Duryea gets injured I'm booking an overseas holiday" group).
3rd tall defender (AKA can someone just move those deck chairs around for me just ONE more time)
Outside Mid (Well, on the wings were gonna have Williams...and some other bloke).

Im worried that if Tim English doesn't have 2023 like year our rucks are our concern , we don't have a reliable back up ruckman , i don't think Gardner cuts it against the top rucks , and i don't want to rob peter to pay paul , in that i want Lobb and Darcy to stay put. As good as our inside mids and mids in general are , if Tim is not winning the taps , our main driving mids are arguably out of position . Sure they can rove to the opposition rucks , but then we are conceding defeat in the centre before the 1st bounce . Given Bonts year and the way Richards came along as a mid and the tremendous year Trealoar had , we still were up against it , so what im saying is if Tim English fires we are ready to take the next step if he dosnt then maybe its a bit of the same old same old .Now i dunno if its true that Bevo dosnt rate ruckman , but in my mind a winning ruck equals a winning centre bounce .

[Mantis]

Are you more or less saying we can't play both in the centre square at the same time? If so it makes a lot of sense but we would then need to find them some other roles where they could contribute.
From the training reports even if both Treloar and Libba didn't play a lot we still have Kennedy, Richards, Garcia and Sanders to help Bont.

I’m just not sure where else Treloar and Libba could play and be effective…. Perhaps they would find a way to, but it would be extremely difficult for 2 players who by and large have played as attacking mids for 12+ years to totally change their playing style.

[Bornadog]

Im worried that if Tim English doesn't have 2023 like year our rucks are our concern , we don't have a reliable back up ruckman , i don't think Gardner cuts it against the top rucks , and i don't want to rob peter to pay paul , in that i want Lobb and Darcy to stay put. As good as our inside mids and mids in general are , if Tim is not winning the taps , our main driving mids are arguably out of position . Sure they can rove to the opposition rucks , but then we are conceding defeat in the centre before the 1st bounce . Given Bonts year and the way Richards came along as a mid and the tremendous year Trealoar had , we still were up against it , so what im saying is if Tim English fires we are ready to take the next step if he dosnt then maybe its a bit of the same old same old .Now i dunno if its true that Bevo dosnt rate ruckman , but in my mind a winning ruck equals a winning centre bounce .

I wouldn't worry too much about winning centre clearances based on the last couple of years as we have been in the top 3 to 4 in this stat and one of the top stoppage clearance teams. This means we have to rely on the mids getting their hands on the ball first. Tim is good at Hit out to advantage, although he dropped off a bit in 2024. All well and good to get a hitout stat but it needs to give your team an advantage.

However, I worry what happens if we lose Tim to injury.

[Stevo]

I’m just not sure where else Treloar and Libba could play and be effective…. Perhaps they would find a way to, but it would be extremely difficult for 2 players who by and large have played as attacking mids for 12+ years to totally change their playing style.

I think Go Dogs is keen for Treloar to be used more off half back

[Mantis]

I think Go Dogs is keen for Treloar to be used more off half back

He is... but I'm not. I thought he was particularly poor when trialed in that role a few years back... he just didn't want to defend, and that's an important part of the role.

[Go_Dogs]

He is... but I'm not. I thought he was particularly poor when trialed in that role a few years back... he just didn't want to defend, and that's an important part of the role.

Shall we settle this at the nets?


I think this is about intent and buy-in. Treloar has reasonable tackling technique and intent, and if the application was there (big if I suppose) it could work. I don’t recall it being a feature but also don’t recall it being horrific a few years back. He’s smart enough to probably realise a twilight will come and a move that could extend his career may be one that appeals.

While Dale, Bramble and JJ are also likely filling spots, I wouldn’t consider them defensive dynamos either.

Doubt we do it. I’ll keep pushing my agenda though.

[Rusty12]

The weakness of that inside mid group is not tackling or their pressure inside the contest. It is the spread once it get's out.
For me, I am happy to let the inside group do what they do best (Which is really, really good), temper the offensive nature when needed (Maybe after the Oppo kicks 2 straight on us), and improve as much as possible in that space, so the EF smashing as an example happens less.

With the inside mids we have, the role of those outside players, HFs, etc, is to help defend against the spread and hide their weaknesses.
Better to lean into the strengths of your best players, than try and change them and find role players to lessen their weaknesses.

A 2nd year Ed in there, Kennedy and any improvement we see if Garcia and Sanders all adds to the balance and depth of this group.

The comment re: Bevo trusting them is a great one.

[Mantis]

Shall we settle this at the nets?


I think this is about intent and buy-in. Treloar has reasonable tackling technique and intent, and if the application was there (big if I suppose) it could work. I don’t recall it being a feature but also don’t recall it being horrific a few years back. He’s smart enough to probably realise a twilight will come and a move that could extend his career may be one that appeals.

While Dale, Bramble and JJ are also likely filling spots, I wouldn’t consider them defensive dynamos either.

Doubt we do it. I’ll keep pushing my agenda though.

First time I’ve been called out to the nets, I’ve made it… back in the day Yarraville CC tried to recruit me to play for them, offered me some nice coin and I still knocked them back. Maybe you’ll have better luck?

I don’t place a high priority on being able to tackle as part of defensive play, more so the ability to with your tail off to locate a man and apply pressure, and I feel Treloar is in cruise control mode when we’re without the ball.

Let’s see how it plays out… it’s going to be interesting how we go about changing the dynamics in the midfield group.

[Sedat]

The bold bit seems the closest I have seen to an explanation for our failures. Particularly the Hawks and Port, but even back to the Melbourne GF in 21. Is it as simple as fixing that do you think? Cos. my next question then is how to fix it?

The lack of genuine competitive tension for 1st ruck since 2021 has been a problem IMO - English hasn't been made to really earn this position. Hawthorn had Reeves as no 1 ruck early last year and got on a run only when Meek replaced him as 1st ruck.

The lack of defensive efforts/positioning from our mids can also be rectified - Melbourne 2018-2020 were all bees to the honeypot in midfield but they adjusted in 2021 to great effect (it also helped that they had Gawn as an elite established ruckman at stoppages and a young colt in Jackson who was also a very effective stoppage ruckman). Angus Brayshaw was deployed on the wing away from inside mid duties and they added defensive mids to cover for Petracca and Oliver.

Bringing Harmes over last year didn't work (yet) but it was the right idea, and getting Matt Kennedy this year will also help IMO. We can't continue to have the same mix of purely ball-hunting mids because we will continue to get absolutely torched the other way when we don't get first hands on it.

[Uninformed]

The lack of genuine competitive tension for 1st ruck since 2021 has been a problem IMO - English hasn't been made to really earn this position. Hawthorn had Reeves as no 1 ruck early last year and got on a run only when Meek replaced him as 1st ruck.

The lack of defensive efforts/positioning from our mids can also be rectified - Melbourne 2018-2020 were all bees to the honeypot in midfield but they adjusted in 2021 to great effect (it also helped that they had Gawn as an elite established ruckman at stoppages and a young colt in Jackson who was also a very effective stoppage ruckman). Angus Brayshaw was deployed on the wing away from inside mid duties and they added defensive mids to cover for Petracca and Oliver.

Bringing Harmes over last year didn't work (yet) but it was the right idea, and getting Matt Kennedy this year will also help IMO. We can't continue to have the same mix of purely ball-hunting mids because we will continue to get absolutely torched the other way when we don't get first hands on it.

Thanks. That's an interesting observation on Reeves and Meek. Makes me pine for Scotty Wynd! Hopefully we can adjust with what we have as you mentioned.

[Willow18]

Feel like this thread has moved away from biggest position of concern and towards midfield make up. Personally I think Libba needs moving out. Low TOG and playing as the only attacking mid with 2 more defensive minded guys with him.

Bont & Treloar are our main 2, and I don’t see that changing next season.

[Dazza]

As long as our Key Backs stay injury free and don't decline with age I actually think we're alright back there.

Our wings are probably below average and out HF's are probably below average. I feel this is a list management issue after having too many star mids in the past that would get hidden in these positions