Round 5 - Western Bulldogs V Brisbane Lions - Sat 12/4/25 Norwood Oval, Adelaide 4:15PM AEDT

[Boots]

I agree, the performances are really good given the teams we're fielding, extraordinary even. I just wish we were getting more credit for them (premiership points).

[The bulldog tragician]

Had to sleep on it because **** that was bad last night, really hurts to lose a game like that when you’re up by 40.

But after sleeping on it there’s a fair few positives here IMO.

Realistically right now we expect to be a finals team, but finals teams don’t have 9 players under 50 games. There is a huge amount of rejigging going on here right now. The offseason from hell has contributed to this but unfortunately that was the hand we were dealt and were making do.

We’re a team of kids up against a super experienced Lions team who has done this to many a good side in recent history, as recently as Geelong 2 weeks ago. Coming off a short break, a lot of travel and a very hot day where everyone was out on their feet, and then losing Harmes early. I’m not really surprised we ran out of legs to be honest. Also in hindsight that wasn’t the game to play an underdone Jj and debut Hynes against the reigning premiers in sapping heat but hey we’re running out of options and they’ll be better for the run.

Weve played 4 out of 5 matches on 30 degree days and outside WCE & Freo we have played in the hottest conditions in the comp, as a very young and inexperienced team, it’d take a lot out of you.

Onto the game there was some really key moments in that 2nd half which contributed to the loss.

- 2 direct turnover goals from kick out to Dale & Bramble, this anyway you look at it, is unacceptable. These are absolute coach killers and both came in key moments, just killed us and should NOT be happening under any circumstances.
- Missed goals to halt momentum - Freijah twice, Darcy set shot, a couple more from memory. These go through and it’s a completely different game and probably a win to be honest. All too familiar though as we’ve seen this before…. Just need to take our chances, to be fair we did also put through a number of goals that we probably shouldn’t have so it evens out but just thought these happened in key moments which could have swung the final result.
- 2 free kicks to Naughty, one clear chopping the arms and then should have been holding the ball in the goal square to put us back in front after we went down in the last. These were so clear and again, important moments to halt momentum or swing it back the other way.

if just a couple of those things went our way the result probably goes our way too. Momentum footy is king in the afl right now, we’re not the only team that gets runs kicked on them, hell we did it to Brissy in the 2nd. It’s just how footy is played. We need to be better at halting that momentum and swinging it back our way but that takes experience and we are NOT experienced right now.

Theres some clear holes in this side, we need class & speed in the forward line which is so crucial in the modern game but our options are non existent, we need help in the backline, I don’t think we have the mix right with Buku as 3rd tall, we need a genuine medium defender who can play small or tall and Buku isn’t that.

But we’ve unearthed some key components of our side in this early season run, Freijah and Sanders becoming key cogs so early in their 2nd years, obviously Darcy, Dolan getting better every week and looks like he’s got so much of what we need but just not there yet, Hynes overawed but will be better for the run just need to keep getting games into him, Davo the winger we’ve been crying for - these 3 have played 11 games between them remember.

It’s frustrating we’re not 3-2, even 4-1 - hell if we had Bont, Cody, Marra, Treloar out there I genuinely think we’d be 5 & zip, but that wasn’t the hand we were dealt this year and we’re just making do.

I really do still think we’re building towards something this season, realistically we’re probably not ready to compete but I think we can go deep if we get rolling.

Agree with most of your thoughts apart from the comment that teams with 9 players under 50 games don’t win finals. One team managed just that in 2016 which maybe points to the freakishness of those BullGods.

[Scragger77]

Sanders is making real strides, O’Donnell was impressive when high and his delivery by foot is a real positive, English had a better game and he is starting to mark the ball again, JJ maybe should have started in the VFL. Too many missed tackles and simple errors with the fundamentals cost us in the end. Let’s reset for the Saints.

[Uninformed]

How did others see Cleary's game? He seems a contributor to me.

[josie]

How did others see Cleary's game? He seems a contributor to me.

Reliable by foot. Rather him do kick outs then Bramble (still having PTBD/post traumatic bramble disorder shakes at that howler with 5 mins to go).

[jeemak]

I m as frustrated as anyone with the last 2 losses but I sometimes wonder if people don’t realise we are a year into a re-build. Add that to fact we are missing our best player and leader as well as several other senior players, it’s impressive we’re still so competitive . It’s the one thing Bevo doesn’t get enough credit for, we are into our 3rd re-build under him and we remained largely competitive through most of his tenure.

I think some also acknowledge that while there's been rebuilding there's also been some self inflicted wounds due to player management. I've been of the view we've never had the pieces all at once and some really good coaching and player performances have combined to keep us competitive. Also believe our "rolled gold" midfield over the years has seduced fans and much of the footy world alike into believing we should be top four every year.

[Uninformed]

Reliable by foot. Rather him do kick outs then Bramble (still having PTBD/post traumatic bramble disorder shakes at that howler with 5 mins to go).

He does seem to have good awareness and decision making.

[Sedat]

I agree that it seemed like we fixed the issue last year and revisited it the last couple of weeks, I think that’s kinda to be expected though when we’re now so inexperienced and lacking leadership - so I’m not that concerned.

not saying you are saying this but so many people act like it only happens to us when it’s league wide. Momentum footy is key, teams are routinely coming back from 30 down these days and piling on runs of goals, it’s happened weekly.

i also feel like in all these runs we have chances to end them with a goal but we fluff it, that’s not the coaches fault. I do think we need to have a profile we can turn to, to lock down a game. Ie kill the clock for 10mins if we really need to. In that ‘profile’ you just can’t push as high as we usually do or you’ll get done out the back. Need to be able to settle the defence deeper and just hold oppo out for a period of time when we’re getting beaten around the ball and take the sting out of the game.

We actually did this pretty well to end the 2nd qtr after our run of goals when they started coming back at us - but couldn’t hold on in the 3rd unfortunately.

Just to clarify, we are the only regular finals team to consistently lose games this decade by conceding huge run-ons when in complete control (on the scoreboard and in general play). You hardly ever see the likes of Geelong, Collingwood and other notionally good teams do this - it has been a problem that has prevented us from being a great team and has left us stuck in 6th-10th land.

You are right - every team concedes big run-ons but the good teams rarely do it when dominating and it costing them the game (crap teams do it regularly). To me, this all stems back to the 2021 GF, and I have no doubt that massive capitulation (when we were in total control on the scoreboard and in general play) has left psychological scars on the coach and also key personnel in the playing group - I'm talking key first choice players of the likes of Dale, Williams, English, even our much vaunted midfield group who were not the slightest bit able to stem the run-on tide in that game and have not been able to do so since.

We doubled-down on our method and personnel in 2022 and 2023 and refused to adapt and change with the competition, leading to more such capitulations when dominating than otherwise desired. We changed personnel, coaching group and game plan in 2024 and those capitulations reduced accordingly and we became a much more reliable and bankable team as a result. We have been exceptionally strong and reliable the first 3 weeks this season but unfortunately reverted to capitulations at great cost against Freo and Brisbane the last fortnight.

I don't believe we have regressed into that 2022-2023 team, but we need to respond sharply this week to arrest the trend from the last fortnight. I'm specifically talking about defending the whole ground when we don't have the ball and stopping the oppo transitioning it with ease out of their D50 - we were the best in the comp at this in the 2nd half of 2024 and first 3 rounds of 2025 (after being frankly hopeless in this area in 2022-23, for a good team). We will live or die in 2025 by this key area.

[Scott2016]

Well summarised. You can add.

*Losing Harmes within three minutes
*Darcy critical miss in the 3rd
*Naughton 2nd half non existent

You can also add the lack of respect to their forwards. Morris had no opponent when he kicked his goals. Once Hipwood got 2 they should have played closer to him to shut him down given he kicked 6 last time we played them.

[Bornadog]

You can also add the lack of respect to their forwards. Morris had no opponent when he kicked his goals. Once Hipwood got 2 they should have played closer to him to shut him down given he kicked 6 last time we played them.

How can that dud kick so many goals against us and no one else

[doggies ftw]

Just to clarify, we are the only regular finals team to consistently lose games this decade by conceding huge run-ons when in complete control (on the scoreboard and in general play). You hardly ever see the likes of Geelong, Collingwood and other notionally good teams do this - it has been a problem that has prevented us from being a great team and has left us stuck in 6th-10th land.

You are right - every team concedes big run-ons but the good teams rarely do it when dominating and it costing them the game (crap teams do it regularly). To me, this all stems back to the 2021 GF, and I have no doubt that massive capitulation (when we were in total control on the scoreboard and in general play) has left psychological scars on the coach and also key personnel in the playing group - I'm talking key first choice players of the likes of Dale, Williams, English, even our much vaunted midfield group who were not the slightest bit able to stem the run-on tide in that game and have not been able to do so since.

We doubled-down on our method and personnel in 2022 and 2023 and refused to adapt and change with the competition, leading to more such capitulations when dominating than otherwise desired. We changed personnel, coaching group and game plan in 2024 and those capitulations reduced accordingly and we became a much more reliable and bankable team as a result. We have been exceptionally strong and reliable the first 3 weeks this season but unfortunately reverted to capitulations at great cost against Freo and Brisbane the last fortnight.

I don't believe we have regressed into that 2022-2023 team, but we need to respond sharply this week to arrest the trend from the last fortnight. I'm specifically talking about defending the whole ground when we don't have the ball and stopping the oppo transitioning it with ease out of their D50 - we were the best in the comp at this in the 2nd half of 2024 and first 3 rounds of 2025 (after being frankly hopeless in this area in 2022-23, for a good team). We will live or die in 2025 by this key area.

Brisbane kicked 5 unanswered goals to come back from 30 pts down against Geelong literally 2 weeks ago, and this was in torrential rain which would be easier to lock down.

Also let’s not forget that our capitulation happened directly after we kicked 7/8 goals on Brisbane, the reining premiers.

Hawks who people are saying are the best team in the comp had 9 unanswered kicked on them last night.

its just not correct to say this doesn’t happen to good sides, it does. Not sure 2022-23 matters in this conversation, we were not a good side and should not be judged as one. We were terribly average.

[Scott2016]

He does seem to have good awareness and decision making.

I made a statement last week Baker and Bramble should not be in our backline and kicking the ball. If they kick it long not so much of a problem but they cannot hit a short target. Watch the last 2 weeks. The other thing that is happening is that we not reaching the 15 metre mark which is causing additional unnecessary pressure on the receiver.

[Bornadog]

I made a statement last week Baker and Bramble should not be in our backline and kicking the ball. If they kick it long not so much of a problem but they cannot hit a short target. Watch the last 2 weeks. The other thing that is happening is that we not reaching the 15 metre mark which is causing additional unnecessary pressure on the receiver.

Some of those calls of not 15 on Saturday were ridiculous. I have never seen so many called in one game.

Talking of short passes, Dale is also no good and either is English

[Sedat]

Brisbane kicked 5 unanswered goals to come back from 30 pts down against Geelong literally 2 weeks ago, and this was in torrential rain which would be easier to lock down.

Also let’s not forget that our capitulation happened directly after we kicked 7/8 goals on Brisbane, the reining premiers.

Hawks who people are saying are the best team in the comp had 9 unanswered kicked on them last night.

its just not correct to say this doesn’t happen to good sides, it does. Not sure 2022-23 matters in this conversation, we were not a good side and should not be judged as one. We were terribly average.

Regularly, it doesn't happen regularly to other good sides.

We were runners-up in 2021 after rebuilding in 2018-19 - we should have been contending in 2022 and 2023. IMO we underachieved in those years relative to our talent levels.

[mjp]

Just to clarify, we are the only regular finals team to consistently lose games this decade by conceding huge run-ons when in complete control (on the scoreboard and in general play). You hardly ever see the likes of Geelong, Collingwood and other notionally good teams do this - it has been a problem that has prevented us from being a great team and has left us stuck in 6th-10th land.

I'm not sure whether that's true but it feels true.

BUT.

The team we played on the weekend has now won 8 in a row after trailing at half-time...and came back to beat Geelong from 25 points down and the Giants from 42-points down in the finals last year. To compare, I read recently that since taking over as coach Justin Longmuir's Freo teams have only won ONCE after trailing at 3/4 team.

Do I think that makes what happened in the second half (3rd q in particular - you can make some arguments about forward entries, silly misses and free-kicks in q4) acceptable? No - of course not. But at the same time when we are playing with a group including 9x guys with less than 50-games, one of the experienced ones (Harmes) who plays a key role in team defence out of the game after 3-mins and another (JJ) who "will be better for the run" (lols) well...

This Brisbane team have a belief about them right now that is genuinely hard to counter...they are not scared - and that makes them incredibly dangerous. Winning or losing they simply do NOT change gears...

And when things turned, they turned full circle...I mean, I'm not saying having Bont and Treloar would have stopped it because, as you correctly point out - history says it probably wouldn't have!! - but it would 100% have put some thoughts into the Brisbane coaches about match-ups, defensive setups around the ball etc.

Right now I'm pretty concerned about the overall record (2-3) because form and performances kind of suggest it should be a bit better than that but I am hopeful that what we saw on the weekend was a little bit of history combined with a 'lot' of young learning players...