Right now Ryan (Gardner)

[lemmon]

I think the biggest hole in the 22 that we're putting out each week is the lack of a genuine third key defender.

Lobb is an interceptor who is shaky 1v1, JOD can defend but is another who likes to peel off his man and support in the air - at the moment, neither is able to sag off and intercept because they're both having to be accountable for the opposition's best key forwards.

Our structure also means Lobb has to play at centre half back when I'm sure we'd like to swing him forward at certain times in games - we could've used the extra contest forward of the ball against Gold Coast.

At the start of the year it seemed like we wanted to play O'Donnell as the deepest defender with Jones and Lobb coming off their players and helping. That seemed to work until Jones was hampered by injury and age.

We're also getting stung by key forwards in our losses - 11 for Cameron and Neale, King got 3 in rough conditions, 9 for Hipwood and Morris.

I think what we're missing out on at the moment is a genuine 'defend first' key back who helps to free up JOD and Lobb to get off their men and also allows us to throw Lobb forward when required.

We're in the premiership window and the time might be right now for Ryan. He's exactly the kind of player we need in the backline and should be right in his prime - 27-years old with 50 games, including big finals and is in outstanding form for Footscray.

It's a bit late in the day for Jones, Busslinger isn't really the 'shut-down' type, but Gardner might be the guy to make a big impact in the back half of 2025.

[Mofra]

My my my hasn't this forum come full circle!

[jeemak]

I've always thought there was a place for Gardner in the senior team if the structure/ injuries called for it.

As long as he keeps it simple and has support to take the ball out of his hands he's fine. I'd still much rather see Lobb, Jones and JOD as our main three, but given Jones's situation I'd be happy to give Gardner a run to improve our flexibility.

But, I reckon Coffield is next to come into the mix.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm not sure if I'm 100% ready to agree with the OP, but it's a great conversation with some really interesting arguments both way.
I guess you could liken the role to that of Fletcher Roberts in 2015-16?

[GVGjr]

Good luck with this one lemmon From my experience many of our supporters have little time for accepting calls for depth players to be promoted.
As an example for many supporters someone like Busslinger at his worst (and I'm not saying he is) is a better option than Gardner at his best.

To me Gardner is a decent option if the right match-ups can be found. He is in form and is versatile enough to fill a few roles for us.
The fact that he has been named as an emergency for the last two weeks might mean he is close with our MC.

[lemmon]

But, I reckon Coffield is next to come into the mix.

I don't really get the reality of what Coffield brings to the side.

There's a perception he can go tall and small, intercept, accumulate and use the footy well.

The reality at the top level has been that he's too small for the bigs and too slow for the smalls, stagnates our ball movement and can have really shocking days by foot.

The match committee seem to like him, but I'd love to know what they think he brings to the mix.

[Mitcha]

I don't really get the reality of what Coffield brings to the side.

There's a perception he can go tall and small, intercept, accumulate and use the footy well.

The reality at the top level has been that he's too small for the bigs and too slow for the smalls, stagnates our ball movement and can have really shocking days by foot.

The match committee seem to like him, but I'd love to know what they think he brings to the mix.

What he said.
On top of all that he'd break down anyway.

[Bornadog]

I would still play Buss ahead of Gardner and in fact, Jones as well. However, I haven't seen him play this year in the VFL so my opinion maybe based on his past performances. My only concern with him has always been his disposal. I agree he is more a one on one defender which maybe is what we need at the moment.

[Happy Days]

But, I reckon Coffield is next to come into the mix.

Geez. Can we forfeit instead?

[Mofra]

Hawthorn is the team we should really consider only playing 2 tall defenders against.
Their smalls are far more dangerous than their talls, and last time we played them couldn't get the ball out of the defensive half. Playing a tall that takes a long time to dispose of the ball is probably the worst thing we could do next game.

Against other teams? 3 tall defenders can work. Not the Hawks.

[Scott2016]

Look to the future. Busslinger should play. He isnt doing anything wrong at VFL level and high draft pick.

[comrade]

It’s time to back Buss in. Is his floor lower than Gardner’s right now? Probably. But the ceiling is higher too.

[Rusty12]

I think the biggest hole in the 22 that we're putting out each week is the lack of a genuine third key defender.

Lobb is an interceptor who is shaky 1v1, JOD can defend but is another who likes to peel off his man and support in the air - at the moment, neither is able to sag off and intercept because they're both having to be accountable for the opposition's best key forwards.

Our structure also means Lobb has to play at centre half back when I'm sure we'd like to swing him forward at certain times in games - we could've used the extra contest forward of the ball against Gold Coast.

At the start of the year it seemed like we wanted to play O'Donnell as the deepest defender with Jones and Lobb coming off their players and helping. That seemed to work until Jones was hampered by injury and age.

We're also getting stung by key forwards in our losses - 11 for Cameron and Neale, King got 3 in rough conditions, 9 for Hipwood and Morris.

I think what we're missing out on at the moment is a genuine 'defend first' key back who helps to free up JOD and Lobb to get off their men and also allows us to throw Lobb forward when required.

We're in the premiership window and the time might be right now for Ryan. He's exactly the kind of player we need in the backline and should be right in his prime - 27-years old with 50 games, including big finals and is in outstanding form for Footscray.

It's a bit late in the day for Jones, Busslinger isn't really the 'shut-down' type, but Gardner might be the guy to make a big impact in the back half of 2025.

Good Thread Lemmon.

I am not against a 3rd tall defender, and who that should be is a good debate.

Do you not want to fix the turnover, and defending from turnover issue is those losses first, Dockers, Lions, and Cats losses share that issue, more than blaming it on the Tall Defenders. The way the ball came in, during those losses, it wouldn't have mattered if you had Sam Taylor cloned X 3.
The bigger issue for our back 6 is having enough quality and confident ball users. Again, I would solve this first, and any team that does not hard tag Dale right now, is not trying to win.

Although the 3rd tall defender might save a few more scoring shots in per game, they might also be why the Opps gets a few more.

When you say Lobb is shaky 1v1, is that based on anything, or just an opinion? I would say Lobb is well above average when isolated in a contest.
JOD, is below-average across the year, and I agree, he should be number 2 or 3, not 1, this would see his number go up.

If we are strictly looking at D1's ability in a 1v1, then Jones, is miles ahead of what Buss can do or has shown at AFL to VFL level, or what Gardener has ever done at any point in his career. Gardner over Jones is asking him to be 50% better than ever been.
At least Buss is the one who has scope to improve, and is a better ball user than the other two (Although still prone to 1-2 back half turnovers per game in the VFL).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I think the biggest hole in the 22 that we're putting out each week is the lack of a genuine third key defender.

Lobb is an interceptor who is shaky 1v1, JOD can defend but is another who likes to peel off his man and support in the air - at the moment, neither is able to sag off and intercept because they're both having to be accountable for the opposition's best key forwards.

Our structure also means Lobb has to play at centre half back when I'm sure we'd like to swing him forward at certain times in games - we could've used the extra contest forward of the ball against Gold Coast.

At the start of the year it seemed like we wanted to play O'Donnell as the deepest defender with Jones and Lobb coming off their players and helping. That seemed to work until Jones was hampered by injury and age.

We're also getting stung by key forwards in our losses - 11 for Cameron and Neale, King got 3 in rough conditions, 9 for Hipwood and Morris.

I think what we're missing out on at the moment is a genuine 'defend first' key back who helps to free up JOD and Lobb to get off their men and also allows us to throw Lobb forward when required.

We're in the premiership window and the time might be right now for Ryan. He's exactly the kind of player we need in the backline and should be right in his prime - 27-years old with 50 games, including big finals and is in outstanding form for Footscray.

It's a bit late in the day for Jones, Busslinger isn't really the 'shut-down' type, but Gardner might be the guy to make a big impact in the back half of 2025.

One of the best structured and supported proposition to conclusion, footy argument I ve read lately.
Yes you convinced me, given I rate Gardner to do that job.

[lemmon]

Good Thread Lemmon.

I am not against a 3rd tall defender, and who that should be is a good debate.

Do you not want to fix the turnover, and defending from turnover issue is those losses first, Dockers, Lions, and Cats losses share that issue, more than blaming it on the Tall Defenders. The way the ball came in, during those losses, it wouldn't have mattered if you had Sam Taylor cloned X 3.
The bigger issue for our back 6 is having enough quality and confident ball users. Again, I would solve this first, and any team that does not hard tag Dale right now, is not trying to win.

Although the 3rd tall defender might save a few more scoring shots in per game, they might also be why the Opps gets a few more.

When you say Lobb is shaky 1v1, is that based on anything, or just an opinion? I would say Lobb is well above average when isolated in a contest.
JOD, is below-average across the year, and I agree, he should be number 2 or 3, not 1, this would see his number go up.

If we are strictly looking at D1's ability in a 1v1, then Jones, is miles ahead of what Buss can do or has shown at AFL to VFL level, or what Gardener has ever done at any point in his career. Gardner over Jones is asking him to be 50% better than ever been.
At least Buss is the one who has scope to improve, and is a better ball user than the other two (Although still prone to 1-2 back half turnovers per game in the VFL).

All very fair points.

My criticism of Lobb's defending is purely qualitative - he seems to lose those 'shoulder to shoulder' contests more than our other key backs. My perception has been that he's out-positioned fairly consistently when he's been isolated one out because he's still learning how to keep touch on an opponent while also tracking the footy. I think that can help some of his contested losses not look too bad - like the kick was always favouring the forward anyway - but Lobby's lost track of his opponent fairly early in the piece.

I don't want to sound too harsh on Lobb either because I think he's a fantastic key back who's still learning the spot - Darcy Moore isn't a great 1v1 player but is an outstanding player. My argument is more about putting the pieces in around Lobb and JOD to maximise what they do best - zone off and intercept.