Take a breath & Debrief - Round 19

[Palmybulldogs]

This team with so much promise continues to frustrate. This game was just the exact same story as all other games this year against the better sides. We are just not good enough, of course, anything can happen in finals, if we make it, and that’s now a big if, but from the other top 8 games we’ve had this year, we just aren’t good enough.


I’ve been trying to come up with actual deficiencies I’ve noticed when watching rather than just pinpointing the coach or 1-2 players, and this is what I’ve got.


Our transition defence is awful. There were times the last couple weeks where it took some incredible kicks to break through, and credit to them for pulling it off, but it’s been the story all year where teams transition the ball way too easily from our front half and score. There could be two reasons for this: 1. Either our game style is too aggressive that we simply can’t get back quick enough once it gets over the back, or 2. Our midfield doesn’t want to work hard enough defensively. The worst thing about that being our deficiency is defence wins premierships, simple as. Oh, and ffs, when it gets to junk time, stop giving up easy goals.


The other thing, and Brisbane was +33 points in scoring this way yesterday, is our turnovers. I know Bevo cops a lot of heat, but there’s not much he can do from the coach’s box when we are turning the ball over like we are sometimes, even from our better ball users.


In a similiar vein, something I’ve noticed is our kicks and handballs quite often sit up in the air for a loooooong time, which just invites the pressure on the bloke getting the footy, plus it also gives that extra second or so for the defenders to get back. I think this has gone a bit more unnoticed, but I think it’s had a huge impact overall.


Speaking of pressure, we simply can’t handle pressure this year. It’s not something I would’ve really said in past years, but outside a few clean users, majority of our team panics under pressure and quite often results in a turnover. It’s felt all year like those games against the top 8, the opposition has never had a bad night and we’ve got their best, tbh that shouldn’t be any sort of excuse anyway, but I think we invite that by getting them into the game when we give up turnovers as blatant as we do when they pressure us even a little.


I actually think if I was an opposition coach, it’s never been a simpler strategy to beating the Dogs. Apply high pressure and force turnover or if you can clear the ball from the back half, RUN, we won’t keep up. Obviously easier said than done but the best teams do it, lower teams don’t quite have the skill to pull it off.


Last point on game style stuff is I think when we’ve had to take the game on late, that’s when we look nearly untouchable. For whatever reason, we always try to play perfect footy, slower, methodical, hit-up leads. When we cause a bit of chaos ball movement, run and spread we look so much harder to stop. It’s why, particularly these last two weeks, our last quarters we’ve caused a bit of a comeback, but it was too little too late. Need to get better at judging when to go quick and when to go slow. Not to mention, faster ball movement will free up Darcy from the 6v1’s he’s copping every week.


Sorry this is a longer one, but this is like journaling to me. It’s great for my mental health to write out my thoughts. I’ve got two more points.


I wanna talk about Ryley Sanders. Now I wanna pre emphasis that I love him as a player and think he will be a star however, he needs to kick the footy. He is a beautiful kick of the footy, but so often he hesitates pulling the trigger on a kick and instead handballs to a teammate under the same or worse pressure. There was even a situation where he could’ve had a shot but passed it, and it ended up as nothing. I don’t know if he’s just worried about making mistakes, but at the moment, those handballs when he should be kicking are arguably worse than if he turned over a kick because at least it would’ve gained territory. When he has kicked more often, I think he’s been so damaging.


Secondly, on Sanders, his defensive craft needs some work, particularly playing on a wing. Too often he gets sucked into the contest and he’s had multiple goals kicked on him by his oppo winger. I think if he can’t get to the inside mid, which is bloody tough to break into, he should be a high half forward, the wing role just isn’t quite working out with him in my opinion


Last point is just about key backs, and I’d be keen to hear some other names of options, but I think we can all agree Jones is probably not quite up to AFL standard anymore, which hurts me to see as he’s been great for us. Our back stocks of Lobb, JOD, and Jones just hasn’t worked. Part of that is due to transition I talked about earlier, where we are actually making it way harder on our backline than we need to, but I also think having better back stocks means in games where we do cough it up or lose the midfield battle, we can actually stop them scoring.


Some names I’ve thought that are available or possibly available that could be exactly what we need are Jake Lever and Jacob Weitering. Now there’s no clear indication they want to leave, but there’s been hints Lever was unhappy with being dropped and Weitering could be available in a bit of a Carlton fire sale and both or either would be exactly what we need.

[Danjul]

1. This team with so much promise continues to frustrate. This game was just the exact same story as all other games this year against the we are turning the ball over like we are sometimes, even from our better ball users.


2. our kicks and handballs quite often sit up in the air for a loooooong time, which just invites the pressure on the bloke getting the footy, plus it also gives that extra second or so for the defenders to get back. I think this has gone a bit more unnoticed, but I think it’s had a huge impact overall.


3. actually think if I was an opposition coach, it’s never been a simpler strategy to beating the Dogs. Apply high pressure and force turnover or if you can clear the ball from the back half, RUN, we won’t keep up. Obviously easier said than done but the best teams do it, lower teams don’t quite have the skill to pull it off.


4. Last point on game style stuff is I think when we’ve had to take the game on late, that’s when we look nearly untouchable. For whatever reason, we always try to play perfect footy, slower, methodical, hit-up leads. When we cause a bit of chaos ball movement, run and spread we look so much harder to stop. It’s why, particularly these last two weeks, our last quarters we’ve caused a bit of a comeback, but it was too little too late. Need to get better at judging when to go quick and when to go slow. Not to mention, faster ball movement will free up Darcy from the 6v1’s he’s copping every week.


5. …but at the moment, those handballs when he should be kicking are arguably worse than if he turned over a kick because at least it would’ve gained territory. When he has kicked more often, I think he’s been so damaging.


be exactly what we need.

1. More than 80 times last night.

2. Not unnoticed by irate supporters. The team practices this in front of me before every game at Marvel.

3. Opposition coaches are doing this. It was clearly obvious in the video BAD put up after the Geelong game. If you freeze frames you clearly see how Geelong set up based upon anticipation of our signature moves.

4. In the last quarter of a number of games we’ve transitioned to a faster game where panic has broken the predictable disciplined rubbish mindset. players have moved the ball by foot giving opposing teams less time to coordinate their defensive play and allowing our players to show their true strengths. Unfortunately, once the opposition gets the ball we still allow them to set up unmanned chains which take the ball away rapidly.

5. Highly correlated with 4. Gaining territory quickly releases our players and disrupts theirs.

Summary: Use your feet, not your brains (Save them for chess).

[Palmybulldogs]

1. More than 80 times last night.

2. Not unnoticed by irate supporters. The team practices this in front of me before every game at Marvel.

3. Opposition coaches are doing this. It was clearly obvious in the video BAD put up after the Geelong game. If you freeze frames you clearly see how Geelong set up based upon anticipation of our signature moves.

4. In the last quarter of a number of games we’ve transitioned to a faster game where panic has broken the predictable disciplined rubbish mindset. players have moved the ball by foot giving opposing teams less time to coordinate their defensive play and allowing our players to show their true strengths. Unfortunately, once the opposition gets the ball we still allow them to set up unmanned chains which take the ball away rapidly.

5. Highly correlated with 4. Gaining territory quickly releases our players and disrupts theirs.

Summary: Use your feet, not your brains (Save them for chess).

Yep all spot on. The good news, is we’ve shown late in games we can do it and it’s not a drastic change. The bad news is we’ve had 19 rounds of footy to do it against the best and haven’t done it yet

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I was quite disappointed leaving the Geelong game. And the Hawthorn one. Even the Adelaide one, though my expectations by that point were pretty much shot.
Leaving the pub yesterday I just felt empty. No disappointment, no frustration, not really anything at all.

This game to me was the denouement of the whole season. We're good enough to scare the top sides at times, but not enough to get over the top of them. The loss to Brisbane doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, but it finishes the picture our performance has been painting for the last four months. Sure, we're still theoretically a chance to make the 8, especially if we pump Essendon and Melbourne, but if we do all it seems to mean is that we're set to get booted out in the first week of finals. I'd love to be proven wrong on this count, but I don't expect to be.

And yet, maybe that's ok? The problems we've had this year won't be fixed overnight, but they can be fixed. We have shown a lot of promise throughout this season, things to build upon for next year. These last five games, I'm done worrying about expectations, done with the pressure of wondering if we're contenders or pretenders. Those things don't matter any more. Rather I'd like to take these games merely for what they are, five more times to watch our beloved team play. There was a particularly vocal (and entertaining) North supporter near me when we played the Roos, who declared to all of us at the end that "footy is theatre", and if there's one thing we've shown every game this year, it's that we know how to put on a show.

So sit back, relax, and enjoy the final act

- BNC

[Palmybulldogs]

I was quite disappointed leaving the Geelong game. And the Hawthorn one. Even the Adelaide one, though my expectations by that point were pretty much shot.
Leaving the pub yesterday I just felt empty. No disappointment, no frustration, not really anything at all.

This game to me was the denouement of the whole season. We're good enough to scare the top sides at times, but not enough to get over the top of them. The loss to Brisbane doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, but it finishes the picture our performance has been painting for the last four months. Sure, we're still theoretically a chance to make the 8, especially if we pump Essendon and Melbourne, but if we do all it seems to mean is that we're set to get booted out in the first week of finals. I'd love to be proven wrong on this count, but I don't expect to be.

And yet, maybe that's ok? The problems we've had this year won't be fixed overnight, but they can be fixed. We have shown a lot of promise throughout this season, things to build upon for next year. These last five games, I'm done worrying about expectations, done with the pressure of wondering if we're contenders or pretenders. Those things don't matter any more. Rather I'd like to take these games merely for what they are, five more times to watch our beloved team play. There was a particularly vocal (and entertaining) North supporter near me when we played the Roos, who declared to all of us at the end that "footy is theatre", and if there's one thing we've shown every game this year, it's that we know how to put on a show.

So sit back, relax, and enjoy the final act

- BNC

Yep, finals experience will be crucial and I do believe we can beat the 5-8 teams it’s just the top 4 that we have been beaten pretty comfortably. In saying that beating the Giants and Freo will be crucial to actually making finals so those are our final tests before likely playing them in finals anywsy

[Critter]

One thing which impressed me about the Lions was how quickly they were able to get an extra number to the contest and force an outnumber. It stood out when watching at the ground.
They also seemed more spatially aware than us as to where post-stoppage and post-contest opportunities were. The effect was they were able to move the ball very quickly. This ball speed challenged often challenged us defensively.

i think it might be advantageous if we were to increase the pace at training of circuit work and match sims, and to tweak our positioning at contests. Work on getting an outnumber and, conversely, work on preventing an outnumber. The key is to do it at pace.

Also, I think we are missing opportunities to make it easier for Darcy or Naughton when leading or when in marking contests. There are ways of blocking the path of opposition players without being obvious about it and giving away a free kick. Weightman was great at this and his absence this year has impacted us greatly. None of the small forwards apart from West are effective in contested marking contests. But all can make themselves a nuisance by leaping at the ball or playing in front. The key is for all forwards to be working toward a shared strategy.

[Jeanette54]

One thing which impressed me about the Lions was how quickly they were able to get an extra number to the contest and force an outnumber. It stood out when watching at the ground.
They also seemed more spatially aware than us as to where post-stoppage and post-contest opportunities were. The effect was they were able to move the ball very quickly. This ball speed challenged often challenged us defensively.

This should be a cheap fix, it's all about work rate, and work rate is about effort. So often their half backs ran through the middle and our half forwards do not run with them; or give them a ten meter start. Call it work rate or call it effort, costs you nothing

[Critter]

I agree, but you have to coach it. And the only way you get buy-in is via training sessions. I’ve not seen it as a focus of any training session I’ve attended.

[mjp]

This should be a cheap fix, it's all about work rate, and work rate is about effort. So often their half backs ran through the middle and our half forwards do not run with them; or give them a ten meter start. Call it work rate or call it effort, costs you nothing

I just don't think it's quite that simple.

I totally get the idea that everyone seems to have right now that our mids and forwards are just getting 'beaten' on transition because they are lazy...but remember -

BEFORE the turnover, they are the ones trying to make space/make the game.

If they have created a break on their direct oppo - or have 'lost them' in an effort to find space...then if the oppo manage to intercept or win the ball back, they are going to be chasing butt. I mean, I get what you are saying and I'm 100% happy to throw shade on our small-medium forwards...but I'm not sure everyone understands how bloody big a job we're asking them to do.

#1: Push all the way up to half back, equalise.
#2: Get out - open up the corridor for ball movement.
#3: Be both link options AND (somehow) provide i50 ground ball support.
#4: Oh...if in all of that, you don't get used AND you lose your man, understand you now have to find the oppo half-backs who you have just out ran/out worked....cos they are key players in oppo ball movement.

I mean, it's cool and all to point the finger, but to say it's all about 'work rate and work rate is about effort' ergo they aren't trying is just not fair.

[Palmybulldogs]

I just don't think it's quite that simple.

I totally get the idea that everyone seems to have right now that our mids and forwards are just getting 'beaten' on transition because they are lazy...but remember -

BEFORE the turnover, they are the ones trying to make space/make the game.

If they have created a break on their direct oppo - or have 'lost them' in an effort to find space...then if the oppo manage to intercept or win the ball back, they are going to be chasing butt. I mean, I get what you are saying and I'm 100% happy to throw shade on our small-medium forwards...but I'm not sure everyone understands how bloody big a job we're asking them to do.

#1: Push all the way up to half back, equalise.
#2: Get out - open up the corridor for ball movement.
#3: Be both link options AND (somehow) provide i50 ground ball support.
#4: Oh...if in all of that, you don't get used AND you lose your man, understand you now have to find the oppo half-backs who you have just out ran/out worked....cos they are key players in oppo ball movement.

I mean, it's cool and all to point the finger, but to say it's all about 'work rate and work rate is about effort' ergo they aren't trying is just not fair.

Very well said, I definitely agree with you there that it’s not necessarily work rate, particularly when you’ve got blokes like Bont and Richards who do nothing but provide work rate. As I said in my comments, I think they just play a very aggressive game style, meaning they might push a couple metres higher than they normally would and if there is a turnover as you pointed out, their oppo has that extra metre already on them. The main issue has been that we are turning it over more than we should, sometimes that is pure skill errors and sometimes it’s being unable to handle oppo pressure.

secondly, something I noticed particularly with Brisbane and Collingwood is they know how we want to play, having an outnumber on the contest so what they would do is basically with 1-2 possessions clear our first defensive line, even if it’s to nobody in particular, it gets rid of the numbers advantage we have and then they also have space to run and carry along with those extra couple metres already mentioned