Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

[Rocket Science]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Did Boyd take a mark last night?

He and Zaine were the only two on the park in our colours who didn't.

Maybe it's the curse of the ruck.

[chef]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Surely he wasnt this terrible at marking at TAC level, what the hell has happened to him?

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Unless we get a few back soon I still maintain we'll struggle to win another one for the year. Thank god we're fixtured against the Blues at some point.

I am not even confident we could win that one.

[Rocket Science]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Surely he wasnt this terrible at marking at TAC level, what the hell has happened to him?

Here's a look, although a lot of those grabs taken against opponents who at that age level couldn't match him for size and reach, unlike the big league.

Maybe his timing and touch is off because he's stuffed half the time. Maybe his eyesight's deteriorated. Maybe we just don't advantage him with our kicking which we're loath to do for anyone really. Who knows? But every time those flat mitts go up in a pack I can't help anticipate watching the ball smack straight off them again.

We could surround him with crumbers, but we don't have any, or any that can kick the thing properly.

[chef]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Here's a look, although a lot of those grabs taken against opponents who at that age level couldn't match him for size and reach, unlike the big league.

Maybe his timing and touch is off because he's stuffed half the time. Maybe his eyesight's deteriorated. Maybe we just don't advantage him with our kicking which we're loath to do for anyone really. Who knows? But every time those flat mitts go up in a pack I can't help anticipate watching the ball smack straight off them again.

We could surround him with crumbers, but we don't have any, or any that can kick the thing properly.

Its amazing how much his marking ability has deteriorated. There was some nice clean grabs in that vid.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Its amazing how much his marking ability has deteriorated. There was some nice clean grabs in that vid.

Amazing too that his goal kicking accuracy has dropped from nearly 70% before we made him a ruckman to under 60% now. It's as if our coaching of him has not been helpful to him in pretty much all facets of his game. Plus making him go solo on guys like Golstein & McEvoy is fast tracking his new rucking career too... It's hard not to feel that the training, education and coaching he's been getting hasn't been much good. And the match committee making him ruck solo ain't helping him either. Just really disappointing to get a kid like him, with the natural talent he has, but then stuff it all up.

[chef]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Amazing too that his goal kicking accuracy has dropped from nearly 70% before we made him a ruckman to under 60% now. It's as if our coaching of him has not been helpful to him in pretty much all facets of his game. Plus making him go solo on guys like Golstein & McEvoy is fast tracking his new rucking career too... It's hard not to feel that the training, education and coaching he's been getting hasn't been much good. And the match committee making him ruck solo ain't helping him either. Just really disappointing to get a kid like him, with the natural talent he has, but then stuff it all up.

Yep. Weve been desperate for someone like this and weve pretty much *!*!*!*!ed it up.

As the seasons stuffed i wish we'd just play him at FF for the rest of the year and give him a shot. But it aint happening.

[Twodogs]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

I wonder how Kelvin Templeton would have gone if we'd insisted on playing him in the ruck in order to, umm, err, actually I've completely forgotten why we are playing Tom Boyd on the ruck, it can't be because he was such a massive disappointment at full forward because I can't remember us playing him there for longer than a half a game. Simon Beasley kicked kicked 23 goals in his first 11 VFL games. If we had panicked and moved him to CHB halfway through the year then he wouldn't have kicked 59 goals in his next 10 games to finish with 82 for the year, and he wouldn't have become the player to kick more goals in the 1980s than any other player.

FFS let's have a bit of patience, switch of the idea machine (it's coming up with stupid ideas anyway) and go back to a traditional footy team without the full forward playing in the ruck. After all we went with a proper defence a few weeks ago and that worked really well. Let's just put Tom in the goal square and leave him there for the rest of the season. What have we got to lose?

[Greystache]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Amazing too that his goal kicking accuracy has dropped from nearly 70% before we made him a ruckman to under 60% now. It's as if our coaching of him has not been helpful to him in pretty much all facets of his game. Plus making him go solo on guys like Golstein & McEvoy is fast tracking his new rucking career too... It's hard not to feel that the training, education and coaching he's been getting hasn't been much good. And the match committee making him ruck solo ain't helping him either. Just really disappointing to get a kid like him, with the natural talent he has, but then stuff it all up.

You have to wonder how it can possibly be that bringing players into a full time professional environment can make them worse players. Look at Boyd, his marking and kicking are dramatically worse than before he got to the club.

It's not just Boyd either, so many players fundamental skills are getting worse each season. Goal kicking being the most obvious example but look at the field kicking of guys like Hunter and Dahlahus. What if anything do we focus on at training?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

You have to wonder how it can possibly be that bringing players into a full time professional environment can make them worse players. Look at Boyd, his marking and kicking are dramatically worse than before he got to the club.

It's not just Boyd either, so many players fundamental skills are getting worse each season. Goal kicking being the most obvious example but look at the field kicking of guys like Hunter and Dahlahus. What if anything do we focus on at training?

This might be the post in 11 years I've agreed with most. Ever. The answer to turning the onfield performances around lie in uncovering why the points/questions you raise are embedded in our system. But I'm not sure there's someone at the club brave enough to get to the bottom of it. I hope I'm wrong though.

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

This might be the post in 11 years I've agreed with most. Ever. The answer to turning the onfield performances around lie in uncovering why the points/questions you raise are embedded in our system. But I'm not sure there's someone at the club brave enough to get to the bottom of it. I hope I'm wrong though.

Tell me which players have gone backwards in their kicking? Dahl was already a bad kick.

Last night there were 10 players with less than 50 games, 8 less than 100 and 3 over 150. In others words we weren't very experienced, and the Hawks tackled and pressured us and we folded.

We have some very good kicks in the team, but some players panick under pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Tell me which players have gone backwards in their kicking? Dahl was already a bad kick.

Last night there were 10 players with less than 50 games, 8 less than 100 and 3 over 150. In others words we weren't very experienced, and the Hawks tackled and pressured is, and we folded.

We have some very good kicks in the team, but some players panick under pressure.

1. Suckling: Same
2. Young: Not seen much of
3. Wallis: Misses some easy hit up kicks you'd like to see him regularly hit. Not our worse though.
4. Bonts: Used to mark him down when kicking for goal. Not anymore.
5. Dunkley: Not sure if he's gone backwards, but his kicking is poor.
6. Dahl: Never a great kick. But now gone backwards further.
7. Hunter: Better last night, but this year his dinky kick and decision making around kicking has taken his game backwards.
8. Trengove: Not long enough with us to judge.
9. Crozier: As above.
10. Wood: Seemed to go backwards somewhat.
11. Macrae: Gun and getting better, but still has the tendency to kick up and under going forward. But he's a gun.
12. Cordy: Looks ugly, but I think about the same.
13. Schache: See Trengove, but a lovely kick.
14. Smith: Not sighted this year, but never really overcame poor kicking as a knock on his game.
15. Campbell: Is he still on our list?
16. McLean: Improving. Next.
17. Boyd: Was going at 70% goal accuracy before we 'rucked him over'. Now under 60%. That's a huge drop off in goal kicking.
18. Roberts: Is also still on our list?
19. Webb: Was a great kick as a half backer. He's lost his kicking strengthes for sure.
20. Richards: Fine.
21. Libba: N/A
22. Honeychurch: Gone backwards
23. Roughead: Not getting better.
24. Biggs: Gone backwards, including in kicking.
25. Adams: Haven't seen enough to declare it, but his kicking doesn't appear as strong.
26. Gowers: Set shot kicking is very, very poor. But on the run and midfield seems good.
27. Lipinski: Couldnt miss a goal early, missed the last many attempts. But ahead overall.
28. Porter: Not enough see.
29. Dickson: Barely seen this year.
30. Greene: Not enough seen.
31. Dale: Seems to have regressed is his kicking.
32. Collins: Not enough seen.
33. Naughton: Looks OK early.
34. Williams: Better.
35. Daniel: Seems to not be as reliable a kick as previous years.
36. Lynch: Not enough exposure at the level.
37. Smith: Turns it over by foot far too often for me.
38. Morris: Same same.
39. JJ: Seems to have turned the ball over by foot very regularly this year.
40. NMM: Not enough seen.
42. Picken: N/A
43. Redpath: N/A
44. English: Better
46. Jong: Still not a strength


We still lead the comp for goal kicking inaccuracy I believe. That's a major kicking problem. And we have way too many unforced turnovers by foot for my liking. Guys on the fringe aren't improving or getting worse as above, while Hunter & Dahl as senior leaders have gone backwards by and large. The game last night simply showed one team with superb kicking skills, and another with poorer kicking skills. But the problem is wider than the 22 that played and opens up legitimate questions about what the players are being instructed to do and the competency of the skills coaching they're getting, which was the exchange between Grey and myself, not about simply games played as an excuse as to why previously good field kicks and previously good goal kicks are now not.

[GVGjr]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Thanks BT, asked and answered.

[Mofra]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Tell me which players have gone backwards in their kicking? Dahl was already a bad kick.

Tom Boyd kicking for goal.
Dahl's disposal is worse this year than at any point in his career (and as you pointed out, it was already an area of concern).
Bonti this year (hip impact?)
Hunter
Daniel
Bailey Dale

A few seem to have gotten worse.
When I try and think of who has improved - Aaron Naughton seems to have cleaned up his ball drop and Roughy's kicking for goal this year was much better than past years. Maybe Dunkley has improved as well a little. It's a short list.

[mjp]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 17, 2018 vs Melbourne

Here's a look, although a lot of those grabs taken against opponents who at that age level couldn't match him for size and reach, unlike the big league.

Maybe his timing and touch is off because he's stuffed half the time. Maybe his eyesight's deteriorated. Maybe we just don't advantage him with our kicking which we're loath to do for anyone really. Who knows? But every time those flat mitts go up in a pack I can't help anticipate watching the ball smack straight off them again.

We could surround him with crumbers, but we don't have any, or any that can kick the thing properly.

When he played against us in the champs he kicked 5 in the first q before hurting his ankle. Playing against two players (Barrass and Alir) who became competent afl key position defenders. He was taking contested / pack marks and kicking Long goals. VM were 5 goals up at q time and I think we only lost by a kick.

By far the best player in that draft at the time of the draft.