Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

[jeemak]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Jacko's a star, just an underrated one.

[GVGjr]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Jacko's a star, just an underrated one.

Most opposition supporters I talk to really rate him but I think from a competition POV he does fly under the radar just a bit.

If he could improve a bit on his fields kicks and especially his goal kicking there would be no doubt on if he was a star player or not.

I do like the fact that most of us think he in underrated.

[Bornadog]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Rance (who should be a Bulldog player, stupid AFL changing rules) has made the past 5 AA teams on the trot, was AA captain in 2017 and until McGovern's rise was considered the best backman in the game. He is absolutely a star.

A media darling

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Most opposition supporters I talk to really rate him but I think from a competition POV he does fly under the radar just a bit.

If he could improve a bit on his fields kicks and especially his goal kicking there would be no doubt on if he was a star player or not.

I do like the fact that most of us think he in underrated.

I thought he made good progress with his ability to get dangerous in the front half with his kicking and ability to impact the scoreboard, although I may be inflating it a bit. He only kicked 8 goals, but that’s 4x what he managed in the prior two seasons. If he can get that number up to 15 and be nearly a goal a game player it will help his standing.

[boydogs]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

I don't agree that star power is what makes a dynasty, but I do agree that we do better as the hunter than the hunted

One player that hasn't been mentioned much is JJ, he was the Norm Smith medallist but if you look at his output since, it's no wonder we have dropped off

Then count the number of games played in 2016 by our GF forwardline, compared to in the two years since

[Twodogs]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

IMO a player is judged over their career, not 1 game. Every great player has had games they would rather forget.

Ranch has a lot of games where his opposition torch him.

[GVGjr]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

I thought he made good progress with his ability to get dangerous in the front half with his kicking and ability to impact the scoreboard, although I may be inflating it a bit. He only kicked 8 goals, but that’s 4x what he managed in the prior two seasons. If he can get that number up to 15 and be nearly a goal a game player it will help his standing.

I think that is about the right number we should expect from him.

As good as he is I think he can get a bit better

[GVGjr]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

I don't agree that star power is what makes a dynasty, but I do agree that we do better as the hunter than the hunted

One player that hasn't been mentioned much is JJ, he was the Norm Smith medallist but if you look at his output since, it's no wonder we have dropped off

Then count the number of games played in 2016 by our GF forwardline, compared to in the two years since

I looked at this the other day and I think it was about 11 players that really dropped off from their 2016 form. JJ isn't close to being back to his best but if he can pick it up it will be huge for us

[The Underdog]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Well for the most part we seem to be in agreement that we have one genuine star (Bontempelli), 2 very very good accumulators (Macrae and Hunter) who aren't really stars and a star in a version of the game that doesn't involve taggers (JJ).

We can compare that to Martin, Riewoldt, Rance or Kennedy, McGovern and maybe Niatanui.

I think I'm comfortable saying they have more than us.

Not forgetting that Richmond just added Tom Lynch, who may not be quite a star, but he's in the discussion and by the end of this year probably will be, given the team he's moving to. He'd be the best tall on our list by a fair margin.

I love our players and wouldn't swap them, but if you were to ask me if I'd want to start 2019 with our list, Richmond's or West Coast's, we're running 3rd and a lot of that is the quality of their top end players.

It's interesting, I didn't see a lot that was controversial in Burke's article. I like our list profile this year and think it's got huge potential, but we've dropped a fair way back from the top end.

[mjp]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Why did we drop off the cliff after the win?

Because we tried to be too clever with game-plan and positional 'tweaks'. Clarkson always talks about re-inventing his game-style and I think Bevo made too many changes to a team-plan that was still being 'perfected'.


What could we and what should we have done differently after the Grand Final?

Not too much. A bit of consistency in the public messaging coming out of the club (to go along with some fantastic initiatives such as 'The Ride') would have been good and at least given the club a bit of support from the media pack too eager to 'follow the script' (which is 'The bulldogs are scrappy triers who always have a go but ultimately fall-short'...aka the script from the Malthouse, Wheeler, Plough and Eade regimes).

Did we get ahead of ourselves?

Of course.

Did we fluke the win?

No such thing. What we DID do was WIN the grand final when we got there...and if you get there, you had better win because there is no guarantee you will ever get back.

Did we just overachieve?

Of course we did. Just like West Coast did last year and Richmond in 17. Name a premier that didn't over-achieve? Hawks getting three in a row out of THAT list? That is the very definition of 'over achieving'.

Did we not have that strong of a list?

Our list is great...you could even say it was good enough to win a flag. There were some genuinely unlucky players on GF day (Jong, Suckling) who could have further strengthened the side.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

Excellent write up Mike

[Topdog]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

IMO a player is judged over their career, not 1 game. Every great player has had games they would rather forget.

Yeah generally agree but the premise was that you can't win multiple premierships without many stars so a star failing in the prelim is a big deal

[AshMac]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

We’re living proof that you don’t need an a grade list to win a premiership, you need a good team. History would suggest though that the lists with 4-5 genuine A graders, the elite, are the teams that win more premierships than others.

I’d agree we have a list devoid of stars, despite having a lot to look forward to in the future w the kids.

Bonti and Jacko are the only two true elite players IMO, with Maclean right on the verge. Add in Libba, Wally, JJ to have great years and we are there - let alone the futures of Naughton and Richards.

I’ll go down swinging to the bitter end when I hear it suggested we “flukes a flag” because we played the best finals campaign of all time, though we did it with a list that played above themselves for four weeks.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

We’re living proof that you don’t need an a grade list to win a premiership, you need a good team. History would suggest though that the lists with 4-5 genuine A graders, the elite, are the teams that win more premierships than others.

I’d agree we have a list devoid of stars, despite having a lot to look forward to in the future w the kids.

Bonti and Jacko are the only two true elite players IMO, with Maclean right on the verge. Add in Libba, Wally, JJ to have great years and we are there - let alone the futures of Naughton and Richards.

I’ll go down swinging to the bitter end when I hear it suggested we “flukes a flag” because we played the best finals campaign of all time, though we did it with a list that played above themselves for four weeks.

I always struggle with that concept.

Nobody plays above themselves, they just get closest they can to their maximum. You just can't do better than your maximum, but it is basically impossible to maintain close to maximum over any extended period.

What we had was a team that got close to their maximum in that vital 4 week period.

[hujsh]

Re: Western Bulldogs Devoid of Stars

I always struggle with that concept.

Nobody plays above themselves, they just get closest they can to their maximum. You just can't do better than your maximum, but it is basically impossible to maintain close to maximum over any extended period.

What we had was a team that got close to their maximum in that vital 4 week period.

And was fit. Our team was real good when on the park.