Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

[Danjul]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Bevo continues to dig his heels in with Hayes.

Lipinski, Williams and Dale would be pretty miffed I'd imagine.

I honestly cannot see the problem with Hayes.

in his 4 games he has had 66 possessions, 21 15 15 15.

Richards has had 52 and Smith 73.

only once this year has Richards had more than 15, and that was 16. He is averaging 12.

Last week Smith had only 10 (3 kicks).

personally, I would rotate all three through the vfl to keep them fresh and help them develop their skills further.

[comrade]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

I honestly cannot see the problem with Hayes.

in his 4 games he has had 66 possessions, 21 15 15 15.

Richards has had 52 and Smith 73.

only once this year has Richards had more than 15, and that was 16. He is averaging 12.

Last week Smith had only 10 (3 kicks).

personally, I would rotate all three through the vfl to keep them fresh and help them develop their skills further.

Because possessions aren’t everything.

[Danjul]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Because possessions aren’t everything.

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

[comrade]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

Hayes' goal was completely nullified by the one he gave back through a fumble and errant handball (and that was just one instance amongst numerous fumbles/dropped marks/ineffective disposal on the weekend). And 15 touches is nothing to crow about. Who's to say Bailey Williams wouldn't have gotten 20+...and if you're really arguing that Hayes is showing more than Smith, well I'm not sure what to say.

Richards has battled this year, no doubt but getting games into him is good for his long term development and will benefit us for years to come. Pumping games into a mature age recruit who's ceiling is fairly capped, when we've got younger players with more AFL level talents rotting in the VFL makes little sense.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

Smith had a career high 9 tackles is the cold hard slog of senior footy at Ballarat. Hayes had a career best 4. In the type of game it was, I'd say that's something else he did.

[Danjul]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Smith had a career high 9 tackles is the cold hard slog of senior footy at Ballarat. Hayes had a career best 4. In the type of game it was, I'd say that's something else he did.

which of those extra 5 tackles was worth as much as Hayes 6 extra kicks and goal? In the type of game it was when the Lions looked like they were getting ready to pull away Hayes goal was extremely valuable, just like Naughton after the half time siren.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

which of those extra 5 tackles was worth as much as Hayes 6 extra kicks and goal? In the type of game it was when the Lions looked like they were getting ready to pull away Hayes goal was extremely valuable, just like Naughton after the half time siren.

You just asked if he did something else on the weekend, because you didn't see it. So I mentioned this considerable difference to point it out.

If we are weighing up his goal, but coughing up a goal, I count that as a nil all draw. So 6 extra kicks at 60% accuracy on the day, is 3.8 effective kicks. 3.8 effective kicks, or 5 tackles? I prioritise the tackles.

Moot point considering Hayes will play another AFEL game, and Williams, Lippa etc will play some more VFL footy.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

which of those extra 5 tackles was worth as much as Hayes 6 extra kicks and goal? In the type of game it was when the Lions looked like they were getting ready to pull away Hayes goal was extremely valuable, just like Naughton after the half time siren.

Do you think Hayes has more hurt factor than Smith? More upside?

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

Smith played a different role last week, he and Libba played a defensive role and were tasked with stopping Lache Neale from being effective for them. In the end Neale was not very influential.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Hayes' goal was completely nullified by the one he gave back through a fumble and errant handball (and that was just one instance amongst numerous fumbles/dropped marks/ineffective disposal on the weekend). And 15 touches is nothing to crow about. Who's to say Bailey Williams wouldn't have gotten 20+...and if you're really arguing that Hayes is showing more than Smith, well I'm not sure what to say.

Richards has battled this year, no doubt but getting games into him is good for his long term development and will benefit us for years to come. Pumping games into a mature age recruit who's ceiling is fairly capped, when we've got younger players with more AFL level talents rotting in the VFL makes little sense.

I think an area that some might be overlooking is Hayes' running numbers and work rate. He certainly looks like he is doing some heavy lifting.

Last weekend he ran:

-14.4km in total (second for the Dogs behind Macrae).

-3.3km at high speed (#1 on the ground in front of Cutler 3km, Liberatore 2.6km, Richards 2.4km, McCluggage 2.4km).
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 3.6km.

-Equal third fastest moving speed with Liberatore (9.3km/h), behind Zac Bailey (9.8km/h) and Bailey Smith (9.4km/h).
#1 on the ground v Richmond @ 10.1km/h

-The most sprint efforts on the ground with 26. Next best was JJ with 20, Cameron with 19, Cutler with 19, and Sam Lloyd with 18.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 31.

-The most repeat sprint efforts on the ground with 5. Next best was JJ with 4 and followed by Lester, Hipwood and Hodege with 2.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 8.

-Our fastest mover in defence at 8.5km/h

[comrade]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

I think an area that some might be overlooking is Hayes' running numbers and work rate. He certainly looks like he is doing some heavy lifting.

Last weekend he ran:

-14.4km in total (second for the Dogs behind Macrae).

-3.3km at high speed (#1 on the ground in front of Cutler 3km, Liberatore 2.6km, Richards 2.4km, McCluggage 2.4km).
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 3.6km.

-Equal third fastest moving speed with Liberatore (9.3km/h), behind Zac Bailey (9.8km/h) and Bailey Smith (9.4km/h).
#1 on the ground v Richmond @ 10.1km/h

-The most sprint efforts on the ground with 26. Next best was JJ with 20, Cameron with 19, Cutler with 19, and Sam Lloyd with 18.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 31.

-The most repeat sprint efforts on the ground with 5. Next best was JJ with 4 and followed by Lester, Hipwood and Hodege with 2.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 8.

-Our fastest mover in defence at 8.5km/h

Good post and nice digging into the numbers. It does paint a positive picture of what Hayes does without the ball and away from the contest, which no doubt Bevo rates highly and why we've given him a chance on the list.

But even after all that running, he still only managed 15 touches at around 60% efficiency and coughed up a goal. And again, who's to say Lipinski or Williams (less likely) wouldn't be putting up similar numbers but also using the ball better and being cleaner under pressure.

[Bullies]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

We will lose a player like Williams/Dale to another club yet we continue to play Gowers. I must be missing something as I have no idea what he offers.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

Smith played a different role last week, he and Libba played a defensive role and were tasked with stopping Lache Neale from being effective for them. In the end Neale was not very influential.

Quite often we have no idea what roles the players have. We only go on stats and clangers whether we want to drop a player.

[Axe Man]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

We will lose a player like Williams/Dale to another club yet we continue to play Gowers. I must be missing something as I have no idea what he offers.

Considering Gowers plays a completely different role to those 2 players I don't see how there is any correlation. Gowers frustrates us all but he is a unique player on our list.

[Happy Days]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

This feels like a very facetious debate. Smith clearly should be getting games ahead of Hayes and raw stats really don't demonstrate a counterpoint.