The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

[kruder]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

Yep - long term this is English. This year, he'll need to be rested at times. Boyd would still likely need to chop out in the ruck for 5-8 mins a qtr, which is fine.

I'd like to see us commit to a structure, even when it doesn't work for a week or two. Commit to it. Most would be satisified with a Boyd/Naughton/Schache combo, understanding of the fact that all 3 need to improve in certain areas. I'm sick of us playing mids as key forwards (ie. Dunkley) and expecting success. Boyd won't be a star KPF but he is predictable in that he brings the ball to ground - this is a POSITIVE. We can then recruit pressure small and medium forwards to work with the talls.

Instead, Bevo and co are hellbent on commiting to structures that simply were never and have never worked (Dunkley as a key forward or ruck, Jong rucking, Gowers FF etc).

Let's be predictable - a BIG key forward to bring the ball to ground (Boyd), an agile jumping key forward to compliment Boyd (Naughton), a leading forward (Schache) and small/medium pressure forwards. This is a structure which is LONG proven. We have some of this cattle on our list already, so let's commit to it and NEVER kill our eyes watching our horrible kicking mids play as key forwards ever again!

I like the setup but we need to add speed at their feet and unfortunately we have no one on the list to play this role. Why the hell would you draft Porter, Duryea and Hayes when we are crying out for the speed and craftiness forward( a specialist not a resting inside mid)to go along with our developing talls?

Cavara is the only one we have had a crack at, lets hope he can get some continuity at VFL over the coming weeks and push for selection.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

Genuine question can anyone name one player who learned to be hungry after being in the sytem for 4 yrs? Learned to be aggressive? And became a very good player? You can teach a player to football but you can't teach him to want to learn and play.

Can anyone name one single 200cm player who was successful as a deep fwd when averaging 3 or less marks per game for the first 5/6 years of his career? Just one?

Boyd and Schache will never amount to much beyond bit part players IMO. (Excepting a couple of famous games). Pipedreaming to ignore the evidence in front of us.

Naughton and English will be guns they are the future.

[Bornadog]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

Why the hell would you draft Porter, Duryea and Hayes .

Because they didn't cost anything. All late picks are unknowns and at least Duryea, a premiership player can add some experience.

[Bornadog]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

Can anyone name one single 200cm player who was successful as a deep fwd when averaging 3 or less marks per game for the first 5/6 years of his career? Just one?.

From any team, or just us?

[FrediKanoute]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

We will crucify Naughton playing him as the sole tall in attack. He has to play with one of Schache or Boyd otherwise he gets the best defender. Schache was putrid v GCS and the Pies, but we should have persisted with him.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

From any team, or just us?

Any team, ever.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

We will crucify Naughton playing him as the sole tall in attack. He has to play with one of Schache or Boyd otherwise he gets the best defender. Schache was putrid v GCS and the Pies, but we should have persisted with him.

I think he would have been persisted with if it was just form.

[hujsh]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

The forwards get plenty of opportunities because we pump the ball into the FWD 50 almost more than any other team. Schache's efforts need to improve. He needs to really attack the ball.

How about hitting a target or kicking to advantage? Pump it in all you want, it will amount to jack shit as we have well and truly proven over nearly 2 full seasons now.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

How about hitting a target or kicking to advantage? Pump it in all you want, it will amount to jack shit as we have well and truly proven over nearly 2 full seasons now.

This to me is the issue here. All three could be absolute guns, or absolute duds, but we will never know at this rate. To me rating any of them as forwards is akin to rating batsmen who have got run out cheaply 10 innings a row and then saying they aren't applying themselves, or skilled, or making enough runs. It's a team sport, like cricket, what your team mates do/don't do is important to output and perception. Bombing the ball in shallow, or hacked entries, or teammates not hitting you up, or honouring leads, or other forwards bringing company to where you are to allow easy spoils to me is the equivalent of being run out by a 'yes, no, yes, no, maybe, yes, no, sorry'. Then being blamed for not making runs. Then being dropped for not making runs.

Either Boyd, Schache & Naughton (ex. One game this year) are all sub par KPFs. Or, stick with me, the problem might not be with them alone but elsewhere. And that elsewhere is not improving its kicking and shows no signs of improving, meaning all this talent, all this salary cap, all these contracted years are for nothing. Until we fix the underlying issue of why they can't impact games, ie their team mates won't allow them to, then we can go mad trying to figure out why after being gifted with the three best KPFs in three drafts they couldn't consistently at our club. To me the answer is obvious.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

Genuine question can anyone name one player who learned to be hungry after being in the sytem for 4 yrs? Learned to be aggressive? And became a very good player? You can teach a player to football but you can't teach him to want to learn and play.

Can anyone name one single 200cm player who was successful as a deep fwd when averaging 3 or less marks per game for the first 5/6 years of his career? Just one?

Boyd and Schache will never amount to much beyond bit part players IMO. (Excepting a couple of famous games). Pipedreaming to ignore the evidence in front of us.

Naughton and English will be guns they are the future.

Liam Jones found hunger and aggression. Seems to be doing alright. So that's one. For two, for bonus points, Simon Prestigiacomo.

200cm deep tall forwards isn't much of a sizable class. But Josh Jenkins & Ben Brown couldn't even get into the AFEL system, to under perform such was their stock price. So there's 2, I know you said one, but I want the bonus points. And on these two, they're being judged at older ages and with more experience as a comparison which I wouldn't ask for. Time not being afforded in fairness to Boyd or Schache. The same Boyd that was the real BOG in the GF, and the same Schache that spear headed the best 14 minutes ever played against Hawthorn where he kicked 3 goals in a quarter (just a month ago).

I would never, ever call such young talented KPFs 'bit part players' so early in their careers.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

I think he would have been persisted with if it was just form.

Surely we would have known/picked this up in the pre-season? He has done 2. He is a big kid still feeling his way in the game. Our game plan doesn't make it easy, and this season he has had to contend with Gowers and Dicko in the forward line not really contributing. I agree that his game v GCS and the Pies was sub-par, but structurally we erred in dropping him for the Carlton game. Why drop him and not Gowers or Dicko who were just as putrid?

I don't buy the argument that he is soft. I believe though that there is no point having Schache playing in the 2's. He would have go nothing out of his run at Willi yesterday.

[AshMac]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

How about hitting a target or kicking to advantage? Pump it in all you want, it will amount to jack shit as we have well and truly proven over nearly 2 full seasons now.

This is spot on. So many times we burn a leading target and either kick it to a loose man in the grand stand or bomb it into an outnumbered contest at the top of the square.

I want to Schache develop some hardness but it must be excruciating being expected to take marks in those conditions all game.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

Liam Jones found hunger and aggression. Seems to be doing alright. So that's one. For two, for bonus points, Simon Prestigiacomo.

200cm deep tall forwards isn't much of a sizable class. But Josh Jenkins & Ben Brown couldn't even get into the AFEL system, to under perform such was their stock price. So there's 2, I know you said one, but I want the bonus points. And on these two, they're being judged at older ages and with more experience as a comparison which I wouldn't ask for. Time not being afforded in fairness to Boyd or Schache. The same Boyd that was the real BOG in the GF, and the same Schache that spear headed the best 14 minutes ever played against Hawthorn where he kicked 3 goals in a quarter (just a month ago).

I would never, ever call such young talented KPFs 'bit part players' so early in their careers.

Brown averaged 4.5 marks a game in his first yr aged 20. Pretty sure Boyd is older and has never hit 3.5 marks a game in a season. Last yr he marked the ball less than half as much as Brown did when he was 20. Same story for Jenkins - 4.5 marks a game in his first yr at around 22 - younger than Boyd was last yr and again doubling Boyds marks per game at the same age.

Liam Jones was just unfit and ran under the ball. Unlike Schache he never shirked body contact and always crashed packs.

No points (let alone bonus points) for you.

Boyd will never be a good let alone a great KPF but could possibly ruck if he gets fit - but will only ever be a bit player at our club as he is already well behind English and the gap will only widen.

Schache will only ever tease with oçcasional decent games but doesnt have the aggression or hunger and IMO will amount to even less than Boyd.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

If that’s what you think, so be it.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

If that’s what you think, so be it.

Obviously hope I am wrong. But if Im honest ive moved on from Boyd and was never sold on Josh.

Rather look at the positives. Naughton and English are rippers. Both are way more aggressive than Josh or Tom. Both can mark and seem resilient.