It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

[Bornadog]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

We need a natural kicker or a kicking coach or both.

Over the past few years we have recruited players that can kick, and I would say overall our kickers are very good. However, our goaling kicking is what let's them down.

[mjp]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Our stats are very good and in most cases equal to our better than Geelong, however where Geelong is better is their forward 50 efficiency and goal accuracy. That makes a massive difference.

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

[Bornadog]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

Of course you are right.

Another way to look at it is every time you kick a behind, you hand the ball to the opposition, and they can take it all the way up to the other end and score. We need to learn to defend better at both ends of the ground.

[Mantis]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Nobody is confident when one of our players marks the ball 40 - 50 metres from goal. Counts as an inside 50. They struggle to make the distance (couple of exceptions) which affects their accuracy.

We need a natural kicker or a kicking coach or both.

Do you have the stats for our accuracy rates from 40-50m and how it compares to other clubs? Or are your statements based on 'gut feel'?

[Danjul]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

30 goals is only 3 per game. Opposition kicks 2 more and we kick 1 less.

How many times did we see Daniel outmarked by a tall forward who goaled?

Always Happened after turnovers up the ground when our backmen had run forward in a handball chain. Usually the opposition flick the ball into the empty centre corridor and run it straight towards goal. They kick from 45 or pass without pressure. See it most games. Helps explain their better accuracy and penetration . Solved by better kicking skills when going forward.

another observation is opponents get more goals from ruck work on their forward line, because hitouts to advantage put the ball into a runner’s hands. Seen numerous goals this year. Many of our ruck clearances are blind kicks under pressure. Ours is a 50-50 outcome where ball lands. Solved by better ruck skills.

I am also quite sure that the big opposition forwards are kicking more accurately. 20 more long goals means 100 more points against our backs. When we miss a shot at goal from 25 metres (lost count of how often) that is 5 points less against the opposition backmen. At least 4 times every game. It’s rare for Macrae and Dunkley to attempt, that’s 6 points less. Solved by better kicking skills.

[Danjul]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Do you have the stats for our accuracy rates from 40-50m and how it compares to other clubs? Or are your statements based on 'gut feel'?

Does that information exist? Would love to see it. My comment is based on what I have seen.

[mjp]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

30 goals is only 3 per game. Opposition kicks 2 more and we kick 1 less.

How many times did we see Daniel outmarked by a tall forward who goaled?

Always Happened after turnovers up the ground when our backmen had run forward in a handball chain. Usually the opposition flick the ball into the empty centre corridor and run it straight towards goal. They kick from 45 or pass without pressure. See it most games. Helps explain their better accuracy and penetration . Solved by better kicking skills when going forward.

another observation is opponents get more goals from ruck work on their forward line, because hitouts to advantage put the ball into a runner’s hands. Seen numerous goals this year. Many of our ruck clearances are blind kicks under pressure. Ours is a 50-50 outcome where ball lands. Solved by better ruck skills.

I am also quite sure that the big opposition forwards are kicking more accurately. 20 more long goals means 100 more points against our backs. When we miss a shot at goal from 25 metres (lost count of how often) that is 5 points less against the opposition backmen. At least 4 times every game. It’s rare for Macrae and Dunkley to attempt, that’s 6 points less. Solved by better kicking skills.

I think the two of us are just going to argue forever.

Poor defending is poor defending. 80% of scores throughout the competition come from turnovers...we HAVE to be able to defend it better (at least in the top HALF of teams in the comp).

Agree we are probably conceding goals from stoppages...but 'not many' is the answer...about 10% of goals are coming from stoppage (bu, bti, cbd) across the comp and when I last checked a few weeks back we were 'average'...I would say it just stands out more when it happens to us as you are a dogs supporter.

The problem is our defending. It just is. Yes, if we just kicked straighter we wouldn't have to defend as much, but you simply have to accept that most scoring in 2019 is coming from turnovers - yes, even by the 'good sides'...but they simply react better/more efficiently OR have the Richmond/Collingwood approach I mentioned earlier where structure behind the ball is 'king'. Your comments about Daniel are fine but he is not the problem - the fact he runs harder and therefore gets back first is the problem...

If the fact that we are 6th for scoring doesn't tell you our kicking is 'mostly' better than average then I don't know what will (and this doesn't refer to goal-kicking).

[Ghost Dog]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

I like in the GCoast review on the AFL site where they talk about caring for each other. If you don't do your job, someone else is going to cop it. That's the mentality we have to have, and had in 2016 with people like Biggsy busting a gut to keep it in the 50. Some non-star footballers etched themselves into the ledger of history on that day, just by caring more than the opposition.

[Danjul]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

I think the two of us are just going to argue forever.

Poor defending is poor defending. 80% of scores throughout the competition come from turnovers...we HAVE to be able to defend it better (at least in the top HALF of teams in the comp).

Agree we are probably conceding goals from stoppages...but 'not many' is the answer...about 10% of goals are coming from stoppage (bu, bti, cbd) across the comp and when I last checked a few weeks back we were 'average'...I would say it just stands out more when it happens to us as you are a dogs supporter.

The problem is our defending. It just is. Yes, if we just kicked straighter we wouldn't have to defend as much, but you simply have to accept that most scoring in 2019 is coming from turnovers - yes, even by the 'good sides'...but they simply react better/more efficiently OR have the Richmond/Collingwood approach I mentioned earlier where structure behind the ball is 'king'. Your comments about Daniel are fine but he is not the problem - the fact he runs harder and therefore gets back first is the problem...

If the fact that we are 6th for scoring doesn't tell you our kicking is 'mostly' better than average then I don't know what will (and this doesn't refer to goal-kicking).

I think the defenders can improve in a number of ways. I can still see Crozier giving away 5 goals against Freo. A game we should have won. But we also kicked 9:15 , more scoring shots than the opposition.

6th for scoring is because they are getting the ball into the forward line a lot but what are they doing with it?

Earlier in the year we kicked 9:14 to lose by less than a goal.

win those 2 games and we are near the top of the ladder.

There has been an improvement in front of goal lately, but 13:12 against North was exactly the same number of scoring shots as the opposition and still gave a significant loss. Some of North’s goals came from mistakes by defenders but 18:7 was nearly as impressive as Geelong’s 21:6

As you pointed out Geelong has had 23 less inside 50s than us for 35 more goals. From the same number of entries Geelong kicks close to 2 goals for each behind but the Dogs kick only 1.

The defence is too short, leading to them getting outmarked. Attempting to spoil leads to 2 or 3 Dogs in the pack and no one down for the spills. Both lead to opposition goals this year. But we don’t select teams with 2 genuine tall defenders, allowing mediums to intercept and smalls to run. So we cannot afford wasteful forwards.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

I think the two of us are just going to argue forever.

Poor defending is poor defending. 80% of scores throughout the competition come from turnovers...we HAVE to be able to defend it better (at least in the top HALF of teams in the comp).

Agree we are probably conceding goals from stoppages...but 'not many' is the answer...about 10% of goals are coming from stoppage (bu, bti, cbd) across the comp and when I last checked a few weeks back we were 'average'...I would say it just stands out more when it happens to us as you are a dogs supporter.

The problem is our defending. It just is. Yes, if we just kicked straighter we wouldn't have to defend as much, but you simply have to accept that most scoring in 2019 is coming from turnovers - yes, even by the 'good sides'...but they simply react better/more efficiently OR have the Richmond/Collingwood approach I mentioned earlier where structure behind the ball is 'king'. Your comments about Daniel are fine but he is not the problem - the fact he runs harder and therefore gets back first is the problem...

If the fact that we are 6th for scoring doesn't tell you our kicking is 'mostly' better than average then I don't know what will (and this doesn't refer to goal-kicking).

We have struggled to play a settled defence for most of the season. Since losing the likes of Murphy MBoyd and Morris it has been somewhat of a merry go round. We played Wood and Cordy as key defenders for sometime with limited success. Duryea Suckling. Lac Young Roberts and Richards have all come and gone from defence. Our constants have been Crozier Cordy and an out of form Wood. Our two best key defenders would be Trengrove and Naughton who have been forced to play in other positions. As poor as our forward line has been without a settled back line we will continue to struggle

[boydogs]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

LOL. Well, let's go with lies and damned statistics.

That comes across as a bit disrespectful

First off, Geelong have taken 961 marks this season (96.1 per game) and we have taken 912 (91.2 per game)...so the stats that show us with 17 less marks per game than the Catters just aren't accurate.

That was from our game against them, 80 marks to them 63 to us

Of the players you mentioned:
Hawkins - 5 marks per game
Fort - 4 per game (he's played 1 game so not sure how he made the list)
Stanley - 5 per game
Blicavs - 5 per game
Taylor - 5 per game

Naughton is our only tall averaging over 4 marks per game

They are taking more marks because their style of play emphasises retaining possession of the footy

Yes, my point is that strategy isn't for everyone, yes a lot of the top sides are taking fewer risks with the ball, but that doesn't mean it would work for us

[Ghost Dog]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Geelong have had 550 Inside 50's. We have had 573.
Geelong have kicked 150.87. We have kicked 115.108.

So scoring SHOTS = 237 ==> 223. Almost exactly the same.

Yes, we have missed some goals, but lost in the wash here seems to be the fact that we are SIXTH for scoring. But only Carlton, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane (by 2 points) have conceded more points than us...

Accuracy is a problem...but nowhere near the problem leaking goals at the other end is.

I have to admit, I don't understand why it is so hard to get this through to people. We keep banging on about goal-kicking - and yep, it would help. But if you have followed footy for more than 5 seconds you would know that the best defensive teams are at the top of the ladder every single season. I mean, Geelong have conceded 200 points - or 30 goals - LESS than us so far this season...THAT'S why they are ahead of us. Not 'cos they kick straighter at goal. Argue all you like, but we score enough to win (sixth best) but we just concede too many scores...surely the fact that only one team scored 100 points last weekend...and it was a bottom side (North) and they played against us.

Until we are at least in the top HALF of the league in terms of points against, our results are going to continue to fluctuate.

When we had good patches with Rocket, the back six were all hunting together, a very tight unit. Those were good times.
Hargrave, Morris, Harbrow, ( who is still going strong with GC. Did some really good shut downs on small forwards during his time. Steven Milne, others I can't remember the names). In 2016 I remember the care that Matt Boyd took with his kicking and decision making down back. He cared like hell, and was livid if anything got through. That's the level of care we need again. We miss that competitive element of Morris and Matt, to be the wall.

[mjp]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

That comes across as a bit disrespectful

Fair enough. I was just laughing at the use of SuperCoach and AFL fantasy numbers...they just don’t reflect the game. I was also frustrated with the list of Geelong player who were ‘strong marks’ that featured a bloke who has played one game, mids like Duncan and Selwood who no-one would say are particularly strong overhead and ignored the fact that several of their defenders (Stewart, Oconnor,Kolo) have high mark numbers as they chip the ball around d50 - Geelong use the corridor LESS than any other side - because it didn’t seem to support your point.

As for retaining the footy not working for us...well - how exactly is the current strategy that sees us conceding loads of goals working? The game is changing - if we don’t have a revolutionary plan, well, we better get with the evolution ‘cos at the moment we are behind the times and leaking goals. North scoring 100 points against us should be a massive red flag for everyone.

[Remi Moses]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

Defensive pressure inside our 50 has been apalling as well

[Mofra]

Re: It's been a tough season so far in 2019 but........

We have struggled to play a settled defence for most of the season. Since losing the likes of Murphy MBoyd and Morris it has been somewhat of a merry go round. We played Wood and Cordy as key defenders for sometime with limited success. Duryea Suckling. Lac Young Roberts and Richards have all come and gone from defence. Our constants have been Crozier Cordy and an out of form Wood. Our two best key defenders would be Trengrove and Naughton who have been forced to play in other positions. As poor as our forward line has been without a settled back line we will continue to struggle

Daniel has played every game back there, but I understand your point.

Eade in his first year basically put six blokes back and left them there come hell or high water so they could get used to playing with each other. Lachie Young getting an extended opportunity speaks to me of Bevo doing the same, in part.

As a team we don't seem to be anticipating each other's movements very well and unfortunately that's not effort or talent, that's just time. With that anticipation comes forward structure and an ability to increase F50 efficiency which is clearly an issue for us right now.