Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

[Rocket Science]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.
Age and experience aside, it's about effort and that will get you over the line more times than not.

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

Can't manage or develop them?

No problem. Ship em out!

[Twodogs]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.
Age and experience aside, it's about effort and that will get you over the line more times than not.

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

Yep. We are a ''grass is always greener'' type club.

[mjp]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

From a list management perspective we are at times all too quick with jettisoning players for untried youngsters

That's fine but I almost feel the OPPOSITE when it comes to our recent list management - that we keep players on the list/drop them to the rookie list when it seems pretty clear that they aren't ever going to make it.

Who are you thinking of who falls into the 'jettisoned too quickly' category??

[Danjul]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

Not at all. We had experienced players leave for one reason or another and tried to compensate by bringing in Lloyd, Duryea etc. Just goes to show we are still developing and shouldn't expect miracles.

l can see that Lloyd replaced Dahl. Who replaced Redpath, Roughead, Adams, Campbell , Boyd , (Morris) .... No big bodied talls have been brought in and that’s hurting the team.

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

l can see that Lloyd replaced Dahl. Who replaced Redpath, Roughead, Adams, Campbell , Boyd , (Morris) .... No big bodied talls have been brought in and that’s hurting the team.

To be fair, Boyd was unknown.

Campbell replaced by Sweet, Redpath by Schache, and the rest we have to wait for Naughton, Young, Cordy, English to mature.

[GVGjr]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

That's fine but I almost feel the OPPOSITE when it comes to our recent list management - that we keep players on the list/drop them to the rookie list when it seems pretty clear that they aren't ever going to make it.

Who are you thinking of who falls into the 'jettisoned too quickly' category??

We will hang onto players like Mulligan, Prudden and Roarke Smith etc for a couple of years longer than they should largely based on potential but have proven performers like Roberts in the gun to be moved on.
Granted it's a fine line but I have no problems keeping a player like Roberts on to add depth in a key position and leadership because he's proven to be a more than decent player.

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

In most weeks we have the opportunity to select more experienced sides and often choose not to so it doesn't quite cover it in my opinion.

If the more experienced guys are up to it and have the form, I am sure they will be promoted. Any examples of experienced players that should have been playing and haven't been picked? I can't think of any.

Here are the players with 50 games plus:

Name	Games
Morris, Dale	252
Picken, Liam	198
Trengove, Jackson	175
Suckling, Matthew	160
Wood, Easton	148
Wallis, Mitchell	133
Macrae, Jackson	129
Liberatore, Thomas	128
Duryea, Taylor	122
Hunter, Lachlan	116
Bontempelli, Marcus	115
Johannisen, Jason	114
Dickson, Tory	103
Crozier, Hayden	96
Daniel, Caleb	85
McLean, Toby	71
Lloyd, Sam	68
Boyd, Thomas	61
Jong, Lin	61
Cordy, Zaine	59
Dunkley, Josh	54
Roberts, Fletcher	51

Dickson has been out of form, but now comes back in after kickimng a few, Jong has been injured, Fletch had two games and he is just not up to it and Duryea has been injured.

[mjp]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

We will hang onto players like Mulligan, Prudden and Roarke Smith etc for a couple of years longer than they should largely based on potential but have proven performers like Roberts in the gun to be moved on.
Granted it's a fine line but I have no problems keeping a player like Roberts on to add depth in a key position and leadership because he's proven to be a more than decent player.

Yeah - that's fair enough. It is the Prudden's and Smith's (and the list goes on) who I was thinking of when saying we keep players too long...

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

[Danjul]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

I agree.

Hawkins is a champion who could probably walk into any Bulldog team in history.

He kicked 4 goals in each of his last five games. Roberts was criticised and dropped when it happened to him at Geelong , did the other four clubs respond the same way?

Anyone who didn’t expect Hawkins to get at least 4 goals against a bottom team doesn’t know much about football. He got 4 in both games against our much stronger team in our premiership year.

Only the Dog’s don’t pay opposition teams the respect they deserve at the selection table. And as a result they can’t assess their own player’s performance adequately.

By the way, Hawkins lowest possession count this year was against Roberts. And it was his fourth lowest in the last 3 years.

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

By the way, Hawkins lowest possession count this year was against Roberts. And it was his fourth lowest in the last 3 years.

It was only a couple of disposals, hardly worth mentioning.

[Danjul]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

It was only a couple of disposals, hardly worth mentioning.

Certainly worth mentioning because there is no other apparent yardstick for measuring success at the club.

Cordy can get smashed week after week and that’s success. English can get smashed and that is success.

Both of these will be long term great players but both have cost wins.

None of the supporters have any idea of what is expected from the game plan and they certainly are not interpreting what they are getting as success.

[GVGjr]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

Yeah - that's fair enough. It is the Prudden's and Smith's (and the list goes on) who I was thinking of when saying we keep players too long...

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

Thanks MJP, good read

My final take on things:

A few years back we added a player with over 200 games experience who was also regarded as a leader (a former captain mind you) as a rookie listed player for us and we did this because of doubts on some other players with injuries. The risk was low, the outlay bugger all but before he even played a game it was highly criticised because "he was too old" and "we need to give the youngsters a go"
I'll be the first to admit that it didn't quite work out but it highlights to me we could be adding an experienced player or two to cover injuries and or the lack of experience rather than saying because the likes of Morris isn't available we've got a young and inexperienced list. If the list is young and inexperienced then it's clearly by design.

Collingwood finished runner up last year and took a chance on Roughead via a low key trade and so far they'd be pretty happy with the outcome. They wanted some depth, experience, probably some versatility and a good leader and it's working so far

We struggled over the last two years with our on-field performances and at the end of the 2018 season cleared the decks with Dahlhaus, Biggs, Redpath, Smith, Roughead and Campbell etc. On top of that we had two experienced players with large question marks on their actual availability for 2019 in both Boyd and Picken and just for good measure also knowing that Morris has struggled to get through seasons playing less than half the games in the 2017/18 seasons and yet we added just Duryea and Lloyd to the list with genuine AFL experience.
This is why I often question the relevance of saying we are a young and inexperienced side because it's clearly by choice.
Getting slightly more mature players from the State leagues might slightly fast track the age gap side of things a bit but it hasn't quite worked so far. It actually smacks of being half in or half out

If we are rebuilding/refreshing/revamping, re-anything for that matter then fine but I don't see the development of the 3rd and 4th year players that we should be seeing if we are actually going down that road.

If we've made a mistake then lets own up and get on with it but I don't easily accept the age and inexperience observation or excuse.

Tomorrow night is about the effort the players display and how the coaches handle the match-ups and for what it's worth I really like our chances.
Win, lose or draw the age and experience angle won't be a valid consideration for me.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 13, Vs Carlton

Yeah - that's fair enough. It is the Prudden's and Smith's (and the list goes on) who I was thinking of when saying we keep players too long...

I get what you mean with Roberts. I just think he helped us when he was playing and I'm pretty sure a couple of our more positive games were with him in the side...

I know that HE might have been beaten by Hawkins vs Geelong, but we were OK that night and the role played by Roberts helped the rest of the backs settle vs their opponents...he also acts as the anchor (which I dont think the coaches like as we don't really play that 'style') and that seems to give us a bit more of a point to rotate off/limit the desperate scrambling charge to 'get back' - often led by Caleb Daniel - that has been so ridiculed in the media and by supporters.

And I guess ultimately that's the problem. We don't know what the MC are asking the players to do...so when they do things that 'we' like, we applaud...without ever asking if those things fit into the 'plan' ('cos we all think what we like is 'RIGHT').

Great point MJP.