Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

3, since the flag. We have uncovered some ripping kids and a lot of talent, so why are we not a force. We don’t have a huge injury list. We trade and seem to do Ok but it’s not showing on the field. If you look at Brisbane we finished why higher than them three years ago. Have they traded better than us? Have the a better coaching staff? Do the have better facilities?
Surely they can’t be sitting second on the ladder and gone past us with out the club screaming out fir a review on the footy department.

Well since 2016, we have lost significant experience from an inexperienced team.
Boyd, Picken, Dahlhaus, Roughead, Morris were our more experienced players.

Brisbane in that same time frame have added experience:

Cameron, Christensen, Hodge, Lyons and Neale make up half of their +100 gamers from this week. Added to that are several years of high draft picks maturing in what is now a good environment.

They were always the best chance as 2019 improvers.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Well since 2016, we have lost significant experience from an inexperienced team.
Boyd, Picken, Dahlhaus, Roughead, Morris were our more experienced players.

Brisbane in that same time frame have added experience:

Cameron, Christensen, Hodge, Lyons and Neale make up half of their +100 gamers from this week. Added to that are several years of high draft picks maturing in what is now a good environment.

They were always the best chance as 2019 improvers.

Not sure that this stacks up. We traded Dahl and Rough. Added Lloyd, Crozier, Trengrove. Surely their is more behind the scenes than we know.

[Danjul]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Well since 2016, we have lost significant experience from an inexperienced team.
Boyd, Picken, Dahlhaus, Roughead, Morris were our more experienced players.

Brisbane in that same time frame have added experience:

Cameron, Christensen, Hodge, Lyons and Neale make up half of their +100 gamers from this week. Added to that are several years of high draft picks maturing in what is now a good environment.

They were always the best chance as 2019 improvers.

Interesting fact about Cameron, he only had 13 possessions and none were handballs.

Interesting fact about Rich, he had 17 possessions and none were handballs.

The Lions also had 2 players with 1 handball.

So 4 players, 53 possessions, 2 handballs.

Add in Hodge and you have 65 possessions, 4 handballs.

Anything to learn here?

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Not sure that this stacks up. We traded Dahl and Rough. Added Lloyd, Crozier, Trengrove. Surely their is more behind the scenes than we know.

The make up of the two teams is extremely different which has happened in the past two years.

We are now much younger and inexperienced than Brisbane. They had an average of 20 games per player and a whole year older on Sunday.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

The make up of the two teams is extremely different which has happened in the past two years.

We are now much younger and inexperienced than Brisbane. They had an average of 20 games per player and a whole year older on Sunday.

Ok then if age profile is our problem, how do we fix it? Many on here are calling for Trengrove, Dickson and Suckers to retire. Lin Jong, Roberts, Hayes cant get a game, Wallis could go to Essendon. Libba could also be another Clay Smith and retire. Morris could also be gone at years end.

Do we need to continue being the youngest side week in week out? recruiting more kids.

Or do we really need some older guys at this years draft.

MaCrae, Hunter, Lloyd, Wood Duryea and JJ

Do you think we might have been a little quick to move on Dahlhaus, Roughy and Hamling. Also what about Jake, I don't hear of him playing up at all out of Essendon, Couldn't our senior coaches do the Job just like Essendon?

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Ok then if age profile is our problem, how do we fix it? Many on here are calling for Trengrove, Dickson and Suckers to retire. Lin Jong, Roberts, Hayes cant get a game, Wallis could go to Essendon. Libba could also be another Clay Smith and retire. Morris could also be gone at years end.

Do we need to continue being the youngest side week in week out? recruiting more kids.

Or do we really need some older guys at this years draft.

MaCrae, Hunter, Lloyd, Wood Duryea and JJ

Do you think we might have been a little quick to move on Dahlhaus, Roughy and Hamling. Also what about Jake, I don't hear of him playing up at all out of Essendon, Couldn't our senior coaches do the Job just like Essendon?

I don't want to go over old ground with the players you have mentioned, but I think we aren't too far off with the players we still have. It is just a matter of a couple of more good preseasons and guys like Naughton, English, Richards, Smith etc will have more experience and more consistency.

Yes, we need to trade for a good KPP for the backline and perhaps some outside run in the midfield and a goal sneak.

My answer to you was in regards to the difference between Brisbane and us on the weekend. Brisbane have gone through a few years of pain and are now reaping the rewards.

[hujsh]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Interesting fact about Cameron, he only had 13 possessions and none were handballs.

Interesting fact about Rich, he had 17 possessions and none were handballs.

The Lions also had 2 players with 1 handball.

So 4 players, 53 possessions, 2 handballs.

Add in Hodge and you have 65 possessions, 4 handballs.

Anything to learn here?

Brisbane kick more than any other team in the league relative to handballs IIRC. They’re successful with this style partly because it matches or suits the players they have. Simply copying Brisbane because they beat us on the weekend probably won’t help us beat them or improve as a club. Richmond handball more and are in just as good form. However we play it needs to suit the resources we have.

[Danjul]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Brisbane kick more than any other team in the league relative to handballs IIRC. They’re successful with this style partly because it matches or suits the players they have. Simply copying Brisbane because they beat us on the weekend probably won’t help us beat them or improve as a club. Richmond handball more and are in just as good form. However we play it needs to suit the resources we have.

My observations suggest (and I welcome correction) that when the Dogs have a better kick to handball ratio they win.

Last 6 games:

218%. W
151%. W
151%. W
139%. L
147%. W
132%. L

They can kick effectively.

[Danjul]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Brisbane kick more than any other team in the league relative to handballs IIRC. They’re successful with this style partly because it matches or suits the players they have. Simply copying Brisbane because they beat us on the weekend probably won’t help us beat them or improve as a club. Richmond handball more and are in just as good form. However we play it needs to suit the resources we have.

Last two games for Richmond: kick/handball

159%. W
145%. W

Both significantly higher than opponents.

[Mofra]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

I don't want to go over old ground with the players you have mentioned, but I think we aren't too far off with the players we still have. It is just a matter of a couple of more good preseasons and guys like Naughton, English, Richards, Smith etc will have more experience and more consistency.

Yes, we need to trade for a good KPP for the backline and perhaps some outside run in the midfield and a goal sneak.

We've all but stated we want to be big players during trade week and bring in experienced players. It's definitely something the club are aware of.

[Danjul]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Brisbane kick more than any other team in the league relative to handballs IIRC. They’re successful with this style partly because it matches or suits the players they have. Simply copying Brisbane because they beat us on the weekend probably won’t help us beat them or improve as a club. Richmond handball more and are in just as good form. However we play it needs to suit the resources we have.

It did When we defeated them early in the year .

our kick/handball ratio was 150%.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Brisbane reminded me of us in 2008 in their game style. The extra heat in finals often means skilled teams fall apart as we frequently did. Our premiership team had plenty of average kicks who delivered under extreme pressure. Of course I’d love us to be cleaner but sometimes the whole is greater than the parts. I’m not sure how many times it’s poor kicking and how many times it’s taking a wrong option, lack of confidence in teammates, or a game plan either not well enough polished or not right in the first place.

[hujsh]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Last two games for Richmond: kick/handball

159%. W
145%. W

Both significantly higher than opponents.

And the week before that they had more handballs than kicks (an unusual feat) and smashed Port and the week before was 227-178 (127%) and smashed GWS.

[hujsh]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

My observations suggest (and I welcome correction) that when the Dogs have a better kick to handball ratio they win.

Last 6 games:

218%. W
151%. W
151%. W
139%. L
147%. W
132%. L

They can kick effectively.

That seems to generally be true but correlation is not causation. Why did we win those games? It is because we kicked more? Is part of the reason that we kicked more? Is it a side effect of dominating the game in other aspects?

[Bornadog]

Re: Three things you have learned-round 20 v Brisbane 2019

Brisbane reminded me of us in 2008 in their game style. The extra heat in finals often means skilled teams fall apart as we frequently did. Our premiership team had plenty of average kicks who delivered under extreme pressure. Of course I’d love us to be cleaner but sometimes the whole is greater than the parts. I’m not sure how many times it’s poor kicking and how many times it’s taking a wrong option, lack of confidence in teammates, or a game plan either not well enough polished or not right in the first place.

I don't believe overall it is our kicking. We lead the AFL for Disposal efficiency (1st) and effective disposals (2nd).

I think it is what you have said, ie taking wrong options through decision making as well as panicking in the F50, thinking we are about to get caught and just blazing away. This will improve with a bit more experience. You can see it in Richards who is often seen looking around thinking he can kick a low drop punt, only for the kick to be intercepted.