WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

[Bornadog]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

I can't remember any major change to the holding the ball rule in my footy playing/watching lifetime.

According to this the prior opportunity rule essentially was introduced in 1986, albeit under a different name.



I certainly don't recall any major change to the rule in the mid 90s, and am not old enough to remember the impact of the rule change in 86.

1996 was when they started interpreting the rule as is up to this year - you quoted it:

This later became the modern 'prior opportunity' rule in 1996, and it was the first time that different holding the ball interpretations had been applied on the basis of what had taken place before the tackle was laid.

Started off okish in the 90s, but then in the 2000s, players have been instructed to just hold on to the ball and not let go in the tackle and causing a ball up and congestion.

BUT

The interpretation shouldn't change mid year - players are now confused. I have heard a few interviewed and they are saying just that.

[Axe Man]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

1996 was when they started interpreting the rule as is up to this year - you quoted it:

This later became the modern 'prior opportunity' rule in 1996, and it was the first time that different holding the ball interpretations had been applied on the basis of what had taken place before the tackle was laid.

Started off okish in the 90s, but then in the 2000s, players have been instructed to just hold on to the ball and not let go in the tackle and causing a ball up and congestion.

BUT

The interpretation shouldn't change mid year - players are now confused. I have heard a few interviewed and they are saying just that.

That's not what it says - the change was in 1986. The perfect tackle rules takes into account what happens before the tackle is laid, as does prior opportunity. Sounds essentially the same to me.

[Bornadog]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

That's not what it says - the change was in 1986. The perfect tackle rules takes into account what happens before the tackle is laid, as does prior opportunity. Sounds essentially the same to me.

I read it as 1996 when the interpretation changed?

EDIT - I can't see where 1986 comes into it as an actual change.

see: https://www.afl.com.au/about-afl/history/rule-changes

Also: https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-seaso...-rule-changes/

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

I can't remember any major change to the holding the ball rule in my footy playing/watching lifetime.

According to this the prior opportunity rule essentially was introduced in 1986, albeit under a different name.



I certainly don't recall any major change to the rule in the mid 90s, and am not old enough to remember the impact of the rule change in 86.

Ah that's interesting thanks for that. I had a brief look through this one and it only mentions 1996. I can't recall the terminology prior opportunity before this time, but as you've elucidated there is was called a perfect tackle.

https://www.afl.com.au/about-afl/history/rule-changes

[Sedat]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

I can't remember any major change to the holding the ball rule in my footy playing/watching lifetime.

According to this the prior opportunity rule essentially was introduced in 1986, albeit under a different name.



I certainly don't recall any major change to the rule in the mid 90s, and am not old enough to remember the impact of the rule change in 86.

Thanks for posting, Axe Man.

The change to prior opp has been ruthlessly exploited by defensive coaches, in particular the pariah of the modern game Paul Roos and his proteges Ross Lyon and John Longmire. Giving players prior opportunity has resulted in them being expertly coached to take the tackle, create additional congestion and work towards multiple stoppages, especially if they have good ruckmen. The time to address this was in the mid 00's when Roos first set about destroying the aesthetic of the game - today, players are so good at defensive actions and tackling techniques, it requires the complete removal of prior opp to get rid of congestion around the ball and reduce the number of stoppages. But even then it won't work on its own unless umpires also get rid of nominating rucks. They also need to throw it up immediately and also call ball up straight away in a 50/50 situation instead of hovering around for a few seconds to see if a player disposes of the ball. We also need to ensure the tackler is not infringing on the player with the ball - there are far too many 'in the backs' not being paid because umps are instructed to focus on the player with the ball getting rid of it and not on the actual tackler. The grey area on prior opp is simply too difficult now to adjudicate on when there are so many bodies in the coalface, so we need to remove the grey area IMO. Players and coaches will adjust within a week.

In addition to prior opp, the best defence against stoppages, congestion and low scoring is continuous movement of the ball - we need to reduce all static situations that plague our game, which are not just the stoppages. I would also reduce time for a player to dispose of the ball after a mark in general play to no more than 5 seconds - players hold onto the ball for an eternity until they are eventually called play on. I would also increase length of a kick to 20 or even 25 metres - the short chipping game is boring as hell and rarely moves the ball forward.

Finally, umps need to be red hot on the scragging around the ball at stoppages. What happened to Cripps on the weekend should never be acceptable and needs to be paid a free kick against every single time. That tactic is a by-product of increased stoppages and congestion, and also of umpires taking too long to ball up/throw up/nominate ruckmen.

If continuous ball movement is increased through the above mechanisms, teams will have no choice but to structure up positionally and not all around the ball.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

Does either option achieve utopia?

I don't like players hanging around waiting for someone else to go and get the ball so they can tackle them and try and milk a free kick. We should be rewarding the people who are hunting the ball. That should be the whole principle of the game

I do agree that we should be rewarding those that attack the ball and that is why we should be seeing more frees for illegal tackles.

However, we cannot have players just holding the ball in for a ball up.

I would prefer to see a doubtful disposal let go as a genuine attempt rather than allowing them to just hold it in.

My belief is that Genuine Attempt should replace Prior Opportunity.

So we would have
Illegal Tackle - Free Kick
Legal Tackle - Failed to take option - Free Kick
Legal Tackle - Incorrect Disposal - Free Kick (ie Throw)
Legal Tackle - Genuine attempt - ball comes free - Play On
Legal Tackle - Genuine attempt - Ball held in - Ball Up
Legal Tackle - Arms and Ball Pinned - Impossible for disposal - Ball Up

[Bornadog]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

What happened to Cripps on the weekend should never be acceptable and needs to be paid a free kick against every single time.

Carlton are great whinges but they do it all the time, they held on to The Bont throughout the whole game when we played them. Bont is constantly held by every player, especially guys like De Boer. Agree it should be a free kick, but also hard to pick up when the umpire is concentrating on the ball up.

[Bornadog]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

I do agree that we should be rewarding those that attack the ball and that is why we should be seeing more frees for illegal tackles.

However, we cannot have players just holding the ball in for a ball up.

I would prefer to see a doubtful disposal let go as a genuine attempt rather than allowing them to just hold it in.

My belief is that Genuine Attempt should replace Prior Opportunity.

So we would have
Illegal Tackle - Free Kick
Legal Tackle - Failed to take option - Free Kick
Legal Tackle - Incorrect Disposal - Free Kick (ie Throw)
Legal Tackle - Genuine attempt - ball comes free - Play On
Legal Tackle - Genuine attempt - Ball held in - Ball Up
Legal Tackle - Arms and Ball Pinned - Impossible for disposal - Ball Up

Another thing that has crept in is just passing the ball across to a team mate, like Rugby. That is an incorrect disposal, but then what do you do if your team mate snatches it out of your hands.

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

That tactic is a by-product of increased stoppages and congestion, and also of umpires taking too long to ball up/throw up/nominate ruckmen

Great post. Ruck nominations, I still can't believe this is a part of our game and sometimes you'll have the umpire screaming "no bulldogs no bulldogs!" because somebody failed to put up their hand. Mark Evans brought that rule in with the flimiest of evidence "to encourage recruitment of tall players" or something ...mein gott.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

Another thing that has crept in is just passing the ball across to a team mate, like Rugby. That is an incorrect disposal, but then what do you do if your team mate snatches it out of your hands.

Incorrect disposal is Incorrect disposal and should be treated as such.

[Sedat]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

Carlton are great whinges but they do it all the time, they held on to The Bont throughout the whole game when we played them. Bont is constantly held by every player, especially guys like De Boer. Agree it should be a free kick, but also hard to pick up when the umpire is concentrating on the ball up.

Agreed, all teams do it (some more than others) but I was only referencing the most recent example being Cripps against North on the weekend. Teams only do this because they are allowed to get away with it.

[Axe Man]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

I read it as 1996 when the interpretation changed?

EDIT - I can't see where 1986 comes into it as an actual change.

see: https://www.afl.com.au/about-afl/history/rule-changes

Also: https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-seaso...-rule-changes/

I don't know, perhaps 1986 was just an interpretation change. Perhaps someone just made it up and put it on wiki?

My point is I don't recall a major change in the mid 90s that seems to be have been suggested by a few on here. Perhaps there was and I just don't remember it.

Also from my readings it seems the change was previously you could have had the ball for an eternity, but once tackled you still had to receive a reasonable allowance from the umpire to dispose of it. Prior opportunity made it necessary to dispose of it immediately. Again I think the change is being misrepresented by some on here to you can now just grab the ball and if there is no prior do nothing and get a ball up. I'm not sure that is how it went down.

[Topdog]

Re: WB Game Day V Gold Coast Suns R8 2020

Thankyou Sedat that was perfectly put and encapsulates many of the problems in the game.