Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

[Bullies]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

A 'multidimensional' one.

I think that's the term Bevo used.

That means he can both skate and surf

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

We always appear to have patience with players not up to the level (Smith a prime example, but Gowers/Gardner/Prudden/Mulligan/Ayce Cordy all spring to mind) yet very little for players who appear to have natural ability (Schache/Young/Cavarra), both before and during Bevos reign.

What's the MC's plans for Roarke now and for the future? How does he offer more than any of those not picked + La Young? I just don't see the rationale.

It's almost certain Roarke will offer little and get dropped next week.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I doubt Dunkley will ruck, well not against Nicnat

You can throw in one or two other players, but at the end of the day it won't make much difference. If we are good enough we will win

Agree.
We'll win or lose this based on the effectiveness or otherwise of our core players, and as MJP has said whether we allow ourselves to feed McGovern with interceptable kicks.
This has to be a last chance for Bruce to find some semblance of form. His continued ineffectiveness worries me more than whether Roarke, Lloyd or Gardner make mistakes.
If we come out like we did against Geelong we should really stretch this West Coast team.

[Doc26]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

There’s often so much angst with selection when talking about players on the fringes e.g. Roarke, Lloyd, Dale, Suckling, Schache, Young, Greene, Lipinski, Gardner, Hayes etc. The thing is, all these players need to show more and demand selection like Bailey Smith from day dot, Bailey Williams after some time, and like what Vandermeer has done more recently. Dahlhaus was the same. He put in that many commanding / consistent performances in the VFL that his time came and he took it. However, we do need to be a bit more ruthless in turning fringe players over who have had their time, to give an opportunity for the next Vandermeer to breakthrough.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I guess every side has fringe guys that are in and out of the team. Constantly lamenting the fact seems seriously like yelling into the wind (not amongst the fine folk here of course). It's up to our main stays really; I'm backing those boys in this week to drag the others along with them.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I’m just finding the MC selections “head scratching” when certain players are just being rehashed in and out of the team, while others can’t even get a look in to show what they can offer.

[Happy Days]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

The bottom few player do matter. When you field 3-4 guys who can’t play every week then its like playing cricket without a number 6 or a second change bowler. Its just so frustrating to see the same guys who we know can’t play fronting up week after week.

[jeemak]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I think it's pretty lineball whether beyond bringing Zaine in there's a difference between anyone we could have brought in to replace the other outs.

I think Dale and Lloyd are more likely to have an impact against the Eagles than the likes of Cavarra, Weightman and West, so that decision sort of makes sense to me though I'd have gone with Dale personally. It was clear the MC were going to continue to back Gardner and Bruce, and I think Smith is likely to give us more than LA Young as a utility though I'm sure if Suckling or Duryea were right to go they'd have been preferred.

None of these ins apart from Cordy will likely be the difference between winning and losing, hopefully Lloyd can jag a couple and Smith can be safe with the footy and put on midfield pressure like he has shown he can on occasion.

[jeemak]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

The bottom few player do matter. When you field 3-4 guys who can’t play every week then its like playing cricket without a number 6 or a second change bowler. Its just so frustrating to see the same guys who we know can’t play fronting up week after week.

But we're going to be fielding such guys because of our lack of depth. It's not like we're leaving megastars on the sidelines.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

My issue is not just the ruck situation, which is a microcosm of the broader macro problems we face on field.

To put it bluntly, I doubt the decision making abilities of a head coach (and coaching group) that has failed more times than succeeded over the last 4 years and question whether the personnel that made the decisions that have brought us to this point have the ability to think their way out of the problem - as it's the same people.

And to touch on Bevo articulating his defence of the ruck situation so therefore we should accept it (versus taking the POV of outsiders like Riewoldt from your example), it's human nature to rationalise your decisions and throw in data/numbers/evidence, even if the decisions are ultimately wrong. Remember, doctors once publicly stated that smoking was good for you and presented data to support it.

(and I question how accurate the data on the rucking situation is given in 2020 we haven't actually seen Sweet, Young, Schache etc trialled as an alternative ruck option along side English. If it's the same type of data that led us to select Gowers, Butler, Weightman for multiple games and the ongoing selection of Josh Bruce etc then I have some serious doubts.)

Who's to say that Bevo isn't (in your words) 'making a narrative & sticking to it'? No matter how confident he sounds explaining his decision making, he's only human and vulnerable to faulty thinking.

A confident fool is still a fool.

At the end of the day I guess it comes down to whether or not decisions are being made in a calculated, sttategic,methodical, unemotive manner.
Bevo worked in my organisation for several years and from conversations I've had with people he worked with,for and to they tell a very consistent story. He's no fool, he is a strategic and rational person who can synthesise and analyse complex days to drive his ideas. He takes on board feedback and challenges convention. He empowers people to back themselves, and will take responsibility when things don't go well.
No doubt my view is biased from the legacy he has left on the place I work and the people who still speak with admiration both for his work and his leadership.

I am regularly baffled by things like selections, and tactics. But my confusion is tempered by the fact that I'm confident that he's not just doing things out of a hunch, or without having sought out and crunched reams of data to arrive at a decision.
I think we're at an extreme disadvantage as outsiders in that any public speaking he or any other coach does about selections or tactics is always going to be broad so as not to give away or reveal much to the opposition. Therefore when I hear him speak about the metrics about of clearances across the year, or our scoring from stoppages, I'm pretty confident that's just the high level stuff he's giving away - which is common knowledge anyway. But based on his work in my organisation, that's just the start of it. Any conclusions drawn are a result of a much deeper analysis he and his team are doing.

Look he's ultimately going to be judged harshly if he fails to improve things in the next 12 months. Its a results driven business. But it just rubs me the wrong way when I hear some people attribute his decisions in simplistic terms. Eg he has his favourites, or he is just stubborn, or any other perjoratives thrown about that try to indicate he's not applying good rigour in his decisions.
The decisions may ultimately prove to be wrong, but I am confident they're not derived from a lack of rigourous thought or without him seeking feedback or getting buy in from the players themselves.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I read that out loud it is such a fantastic post.

[Happy Days]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

But we're going to be fielding such guys because of our lack of depth. It's not like we're leaving megastars on the sidelines.

I’d posit our depth is on the sidelines and we’re playing our lack of depth.

[jeemak]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I’d posit our depth is on the sidelines and we’re playing our lack of depth.

Sure, have it your way dude.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I’d posit our depth is on the sidelines and we’re playing our lack of depth.

I'm not disagreeing on the face of what we see, but does it make more sense that those who are in possession of all the data, form and analysis internally are pretty well placed to make those choices? I think thats where YHF is coming from and I'm in the same camp. Totally understand your position, and since 2016 it's a fair one. But I don't think we have left too much in the sheds; Lewis Young certainly baffling and doesn't augur well for his future with us does it. (Hope im wrong).

[Bornadog]

Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

I read that out loud it is such a fantastic post.

Ditto