How do we get our bark back?

[AshMac]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Wallis?

Yep, that’s fair

[AshMac]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Last year against the Dogs Dangerfield got 23 possessions (twice).

And his last half dozen games this year have been even less. I think his average for this year is 23.

What was it about Friday’s game that gave him a 50% increase and made him dominant and a match winner?

And also has our mids called overrated here.

It was the quality of his possessions IMO rather than the number. He was brutal - never got pinged holding the ball in and was clinical with his ball use. That 45m kick to Hawkins in the 3rd (?) qtr running at full speed Was beyond elite. He was so damaging around the stoppages granted - and we have a lot of work to do with them - but he was also in brownlow form that night all over the ground and there isn’t much you can do about a player of his ilk on a night like that.

Should he have been able to win them the game? No.

I’m seeing The start of a pattern with Dusty and Danger both having their best games of the year against us and wondering if Fyfe does something similar in a few weeks.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Looking at our midfield another way, what are the qualities of a great midfield?

1. Ability to get first use
2. Quick hands
3. Clean skills
4. Elite foot skills
5. Speed
6. Shut down defender (Tagger)
7. Run and carry
8. Defensive players
9. Aggression/full on intensity. Tackling machines

Any other qualities?

Now, with our current crop, what’s lacking for each mainstay player? I think it’s fair to say each has quick hands.

Bont:
Run and carry
Speed
Defensive players
Shut down defender
Aggression
He does have elite foot skills but it can go missing at times.

Macrae:
Run and carry
Speed
Clean skills
Elite foot skills
Shut down defender
He’s our ball getter

Smith:
Shut down defender
On potential he’s probably our most complete mid

Libba:
Run and carry
Speed
Could play the tagger but are his skills wasted in doing this?

Dunkley:
Run and carry
Speed
Elite foot skills
Clean skills
Can he become our Steele?

Hunter:
Speed
Clean skills
Elite foot skills
Aggression

I mean looking at that we’re not too badly placed and it does match what is being discussed. We need another mid who is quick and clean by foot. But these types are extremely hard to trade in. We also miss a bit of run and carry and these two components seem to be falling in the young shoulders of Smith. A tagger would be nice. Can Dunks play this role ala Steele?

At the end of they day it’s not far off. We just need that intensity at all times and to play more cohesively. Add a touch more class and it’s fairly solid.

[Mofra]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Maybe it's just me, but I consider a ruckman as part of the midfield.

Now our running mids look good on paper against other teams, but that complexion changes when you add the ruck to the mix. Right now Timmy just isn't much of a threat at stoppages, especially in the centre. He is so good at the around the ground stuff that it can be hidden at times, but it can't be hidden at the centre bounces. Teams are now working on ways to exploit that, and in recent weeks some have been successful.

[Axe Man]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

It was the quality of his possessions IMO rather than the number. He was brutal - never got pinged holding the ball in and was clinical with his ball use. That 45m kick to Hawkins in the 3rd (?) qtr running at full speed Was beyond elite. He was so damaging around the stoppages granted - and we have a lot of work to do with them - but he was also in brownlow form that night all over the ground and there isn’t much you can do about a player of his ilk on a night like that.

Should he have been able to win them the game? No.

I’m seeing The start of a pattern with Dusty and Danger both having their best games of the year against us and wondering if Fyfe does something similar in a few weeks.

That's the first time I've ever heard Dangerfield described as being clinical with his ball use.

No doubt Danger was a major reason they won the game - he was immense with his attack on the ball and had some damaging disposals, but as always he sprayed plenty. Kicked a couple out on the full and went at 39% by foot and had 56% overall disposal efficiency. I know he's not exactly taking many safe sideways chips to pump these numbers up, but elite by foot he is most definitely not.

[mjp]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Looking at our midfield another way, what are the qualities of a great midfield?

1. Ability to get first use
2. Quick hands
3. Clean skills
4. Elite foot skills
5. Speed
6. Shut down defender (Tagger)
7. Run and carry
8. Defensive players
9. Aggression/full on intensity. Tackling machines

Any other qualities?

Umm.
Ability to find space in transition.
Able to fulfill multiple roles in a contest structure.
Willingness/Speed in transition from a contest.
Defensive positioning skills - able to play in space and one-v-one.
...you could go on and on.

The skills of the game that make elite players are hard to define. The skills of the game that 'good average players' have are easy to define...that is the beauty of sport. You can learn skills/develop excellence in skill ex independently but that doesn't make you a good player.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

I agree with a lot of what you've written here. But I can't ignore the fact Dunkley was just getting mauled in the ruck in the last quarter. Not his fault, he's not big enough. A decision like this sits fairly and squarely on Bevo's shoulders. I don't think there's a single person in footy, following ANY team, that would give the 'Dunkley as ruckman' experiment the tick of approval.

I completely disagree with the OP.

Yes, we gave up a 6 goal lead, but remember who we were playing on Friday. The number one Defensive, Offensive team, the team that has kicked the most goals for the season, number one in Stoppages, Clearances, Contested Possession and equal top of the ladder.

They threw everything at us in the second and third quarters and only managed 3 goals and 2 goals - our defence was under pressure, but they held out. Yes we made a few mistakes here and there. By the time the last quarter was on, we were down two players and tiring but still holding on to a ten point lead with about 5 minutes to go. If it wasn't for some lack of composure, we could have won the game.

This game was not like our weak efforts against Collingwood, Saints and Richmond and showed we can match it with some of the best teams. We played a similar game against Port Adelaide at their home ground and threw that one away as well.

I do agree, and have said it for some time, we don't have the full cattle on the ground to be top four at this stage. We aren't too far off.

If we can sort out the rucks, get a small forward to kick goals, and an athletic CHB we will be there. I would also love a speedy outside mid.

[Topdog]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

You know, typically in the days following a loss I'm more level-headed and pragmatic about our game. But not this week. Last weeks loss really irks me. It's eating away at me as the days pass. Yeah losing games when you've built a lead are always the most frustrating but this one is different. The way it happened was all too familiar and.....predictable for this new post-flag group.

I'm literally just getting over this and still cant think about what needs to change. Geez that loss annoyed me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Umm.
Ability to find space in transition.
Able to fulfill multiple roles in a contest structure.
Willingness/Speed in transition from a contest.
Defensive positioning skills - able to play in space and one-v-one.
...you could go on and on.

The skills of the game that make elite players are hard to define. The skills of the game that 'good average players' have are easy to define...that is the beauty of sport. You can learn skills/develop excellence in skill ex independently but that doesn't make you a good player.

I suppose a lot of it comes down to which skills you can learn/develop and which are just skills you have or won't have. I mean, Macrae just isn't going to turn into a great kick no matter how much he practices. But a lot of the transition skills (willingness), positioning skills, finding space etc can be taught or come with experience. Does depend on the player though as some just don't get it.

[Mofra]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

I suppose a lot of it comes down to which skills you can learn/develop and which are just skills you have or won't have. I mean, Macrae just isn't going to turn into a great kick no matter how much he practices. But a lot of the transition skills (willingness), positioning skills, finding space etc can be taught or come with experience. Does depend on the player though as some just don't get it.

Macrae led our team in inside 50s that convert to scores last year. He's a better kick than some give him credit for.
Bont's set shot kicking is an infinitely greater concern.

[mjp]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

I suppose a lot of it comes down to which skills you can learn/develop and which are just skills you have or won't have. I mean, Macrae just isn't going to turn into a great kick no matter how much he practices. But a lot of the transition skills (willingness), positioning skills, finding space etc can be taught or come with experience. Does depend on the player though as some just don't get it.

I would say it is way easier to teach someone to kick than it is to teach them to find space. Tangible vs intangible skills...

[Bornadog]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Macrae led our team in inside 50s that convert to scores last year. He's a better kick than some give him credit for.
Bont's set shot kicking is an infinitely greater concern.

Bont's set shots have improved dramtically this year.

[Axe Man]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Bont's set shots have improved dramtically this year.

I think dramatically improved is overstating it. He's been better in recent weeks but was still poor earlier in the season.

He's kicked 9.5 from 19 shots (47%) this year. I'm not sure on the set shot breakdown. At least he's better than Cripps.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

Macrae led our team in inside 50s that convert to scores last year. He's a better kick than some give him credit for.
Bont's set shot kicking is an infinitely greater concern.

I don’t think Jack’s a bad kick. I’m more saying I don’t think you can teach him to become a more penetrating kicker

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: How do we get our bark back?

I would say it is way easier to teach someone to kick than it is to teach them to find space. Tangible vs intangible skills...

Yeah I came to that thought just before I clicked 'Post' but did it anyway.

To a point, you can improve kicking skills. Intangibles are much harder to pickup. Especially executing them consistently. Funnily enough I think our mids are intelligent guys so these intangible skills shouldn't be difficult for them to pick up. But we do see the same problems present themselves repeatedly.